Gibbs Energy and chemical equilibrium

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equilibrium condition for chemical reactions in the context of Gibbs free energy. Participants explore the mathematical implications of defining the extent of reaction and the meaning of "arbitrary variation" in relation to infinitesimal changes in composition within a closed system at equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the infinitesimal variation in moles, denoted as ##d\lambda##, is considered "arbitrary" at equilibrium, suggesting it should be zero since the system's composition does not change.
  • Another participant points out that if ##d\lambda## is arbitrary, then the equation ##d\lambda \times x = 0## implies that ##x## must be zero, raising further questions about the nature of ##d\lambda##.
  • Some participants clarify that ##d\lambda## is defined as infinitesimal and approaches zero but does not actually become zero, indicating a misunderstanding of the definition of differentials.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the need to determine the minimum of the Gibbs free energy function with respect to variations in the number of moles, leading to the condition ##\sum u_i v_i = 0##.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of ##d\lambda## as arbitrary versus its infinitesimal nature. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions on the equilibrium condition.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the wording of definitions and the mathematical treatment of infinitesimals, indicating a need for clarity in understanding the differential calculus involved in thermodynamic principles.

dRic2
Hi, i'll apologize for my english in advance, so here's the question.

I was wondering about the equilibrium condition for a chemical reaction. We know that a closed system is in equilibrium if the Gibbs free energy's function has a minimun in that point. So, taking Temperature and Pressure as constants (to ease the calculations) the first differential of Gibbs function would be:

dG = ∑u_idn_i = 0 (where ## u_i ## is the chemical potential and ##dn_i## is the infinitesimal variation of moles )

Defying the Extent of Reaction as

d\lambda = dn_i/v_i (where ##v_i## is the stoichiometric coefficient)

the formula can be re-arranged as

dG = ∑u_i(d\lambda v_i) = d\lambda(∑u_iv_i) = 0

then I don't get why my book says that ##d\lambda## is an "arbitrary variation" thus it simplifies in ## ∑u_iv_i = 0 ##
I mean if it is an equilibrium why would ##dn## be "arbitrary"? It should be zero because we can not have a variation in the composition of the system because, at the equilibrium, the properties of the system should remain unchanged.
 
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dRic2 said:
Hi, i'll apologize for my english in advance, so here's the question.

I was wondering about the equilibrium condition for a chemical reaction. We know that a closed system is in equilibrium if the Gibbs free energy's function has a minimun in that point. So, taking Temperature and Pressure as constants (to ease the calculations) the first differential of Gibbs function would be:

dG = ∑u_idn_i = 0 (where ## u_i ## is the chemical potential and ##dn_i## is the infinitesimal variation of moles )

Defying the Extent of Reaction as

d\lambda = dn_i/v_i (where ##v_i## is the stoichiometric coefficient)

the formula can be re-arranged as

dG = ∑u_i(d\lambda v_i) = d\lambda(∑u_iv_i) = 0

then I don't get why my book says that ##d\lambda## is an "arbitrary variation" thus it simplifies in ## ∑u_iv_i = 0 ##
I mean if it is an equilibrium why would ##dn## be "arbitrary"? It should be zero because we can not have a variation in the composition of the system because, at the equilibrium, the properties of the system should remain unchanged.

Read it in a different way: You are searching for the minimum of the Gibbs free energy function.

(dG/dλ)p,T = 0 = Σvi μi
 
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Thank you, I didn't see that... :)

Anyways, can you explain the mathematical meaning of:

"##d\lambda## is an arbitrary variation thus it simplifies in ##\sum u_i v_i = 0##" (Hope i translated it correctly from my book)

I still don't get it...
 
If ##d\lambda## is arbitrary, then ##d\lambda \times x = 0## means ##x = 0##.
 
Ok, but why ##d\lambda## is arbitrary? that's my question. Sorry if I wasn't clear
 
dRic2 said:
Ok, but why ##d\lambda## is arbitrary? that's my question. Sorry if I wasn't clear

The wording is somehow ambiguous. The quantity dλ is not arbitrary, it is by definition of infinitesimal size, viz. dλ is thought to approach zero as a limit, but doesn’t become zero.
 
Yes, but i don't get why dn (or ##d\lambda##) is infinitesimal (or whatever) and is not zero. Just I said, temperature and pressure are considered constants and so dT=dP=0, but at the equilibrium also dn should be zero because i can't have material transport from A to B. I think I miss something of the definition of differential...
 
dRic2 said:
Yes, but i don't get why dn (or ##d\lambda##) is infinitesimal (or whatever) and is not zero. Just I said, temperature and pressure are considered constants and so dT=dP=0, but at the equilibrium also dn should be zero because i can't have material transport from A to B. I think I miss something of the definition of differential...

What it all means: You simply determine the minimum of the function G(T, p, n1, n2, …., nn) with respect to variations in the ni’s; by this, you find the necessary condition for the Gibbs free energy to be a minimum: Σvi μi = 0
 

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