Given value of vectors a,b, b.c and a+(b×c), Find (c.a)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a vector problem involving the values of vectors a, b, and c, specifically focusing on the expression a + (b × c) and the goal of finding the dot product (c · a). Participants are examining the implications of the given relationships and the conditions under which they hold true.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants explore the implications of the equation a + (b × c) = 0, questioning the validity of the assumptions regarding the vectors' relationships. Others suggest that the problem may involve the vector triple product and examine alternative methods to arrive at the given answer of 10.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants raising concerns about contradictions in the problem statement and the relationships between the vectors. There is no explicit consensus, but various interpretations and methods are being explored, indicating a productive exchange of ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants note a potential contradiction in the problem statement regarding the perpendicularity of vectors a and b, given their defined values. This raises questions about the validity of the problem as presented.

Aurelius120
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Homework Statement
##a=\hat i-2\hat j+3\hat k## and ##b=\hat i+\hat j+\hat k##
##c## is a vector such that ##a+(b\times c)=0## and ##b.c=5##
Find ##3(c.a)##
Relevant Equations
$$(p\times q)\times r=(p.r)q-(q.r)p$$
20240126_040054.jpg

I thought this was too easy
$$a+(b\times c)=0\implies a=-(b\times c)=(c\times b)$$
Then
$$3(c.a)=3(c.(c\times b))=0$$
Since cross product of vectors is perpendicular to both vectors and dot product of perpendicular vectors is zero.

Now here's the problem, correct answer given is 10. But how do I get that?Why is my answer wrong?
It seems to hint at using vector triple product
 
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I crack my head to find why your method is wrong, but I find indeed 10 IF I use another method where I take the triple cross product ##a\times(b\times c)=0## (you can deduce this equation by taking the cross product with ##a## of the given equation.
 
Well the problem statement has a contradiction, it gives as ##a## clearly different than the zero vector, but it also gives that ##a+(b\times c)=0## from which you can deduce that either a is zero or that a is perpendicular to b (and perpendicular to c), neither can hold according to what is given for a and b.

Anyway that's what I concluded with my internal thinking but lets wait what @Orodruin or @pasmith have to say for this, two of the advisors that almost always find a "jet" and rigorous explanation.

@PeroK too plz have a look at this.
 
There is an obvious self-contraction in the problem statement. From ##\vec a + \vec b \times \vec c = 0## it is necessary that ##\vec a \perp \vec b## but the given ##\vec a## and ##\vec b## are not perpendicular by virtue of ##\vec a\cdot \vec b = 1-2+3 = 2 \neq 0##.
 
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Orodruin said:
There is an obvious self-contraction in the problem statement. From ##\vec a + \vec b \times \vec c = 0## it is necessary that ##\vec a \perp \vec b## but the given ##\vec a## and ##\vec b## are not perpendicular by virtue of ##\vec a\cdot \vec b = 1-2+3 = 2 \neq 0##.

Delta2 said:
Well the problem statement has a contradiction, it gives as ##a## clearly different than the zero vector, but it also gives that ##a+(b\times c)=0## from which you can deduce that either a is zero or that a is perpendicular to b (and perpendicular to c), neither can hold according to what is given for a and b.

Anyway that's what I concluded with my internal thinking but lets wait what @Orodruin or @pasmith have to say for this, two of the advisors that almost always find a "jet" and rigorous explanation.

@PeroK too plz have a look at this.
😱
And this was a 'Previous Year Question' in an exam. They tried too hard to make it difficult.
[Attachment missing. Link removed by moderator]
This solution that gives 10.
 
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It is not the first and not the last time someone makes a mistake when formulating an exam.

My favourite was when our classical mechanics teacher asked us to find the natural frequency of oscillations around a stable equilibrium that was, in fact, unstable. The rest of the class got imaginary frequencies. I showed that the equilibrium was unstable, found the actual stable equilibrium of the system (which was significantly more complex), and found the frequency for that equilibrium. I got 6 out of 3 points for that problem. 😂
 
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