Going Below 0° Kelvin: Universal Inertia?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of temperatures below 0° Kelvin, the implications of such temperatures on inertia, and the nature of heat as a medium. Participants explore theoretical aspects of absolute zero, negative temperatures, and the behavior of atoms at extreme conditions, touching on both conceptual and technical elements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that temperature cannot fall below 0 K, referencing definitions of absolute zero.
  • Others mention the existence of negative Kelvin values in specific systems, suggesting these are not truly negative but rather represent conditions beyond conventional temperature scales.
  • A participant questions the concept of "total inertia" and its implications if temperatures below 0 K were possible.
  • There are inquiries about the effects of adding heat to objects moving at relativistic speeds, with some arguing against the idea that such additions could exceed the speed of light.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the concept of negative temperature and its implications, seeking clarification.
  • Discussions arise about heat as a "universal inconsistent medium," with varying interpretations of what this means and whether heat can be considered a medium at all.
  • Concerns are raised about the theoretical impossibility of reaching absolute zero and the challenges associated with measuring such temperatures.
  • Participants discuss the idea that heat must be present throughout the universe, even in a vacuum, leading to debates about the nature of heat and its transfer mechanisms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that temperatures cannot fall below 0 K, but there are multiple competing views regarding the implications of negative temperatures and the nature of heat. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly regarding the definitions and consequences of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of consensus on the definitions of "total inertia" and "universal inconsistent medium," as well as the unresolved nature of discussions surrounding negative temperatures and their implications in quantum mechanics.

Glynis
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As there is nowhere in the Universe below 0° Kelvin. Could heat be considered a universal inconsistent medium?
If we were to go below 0° Kelvin, would total inertia follow?
Thanks,
Glynis
 
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as there is no activity of atoms and molecules at that temperature,no movement no heat.
 
rdt2 said:
You can, however, get negative Kelvin values - follow up the link in the Wiki article.
Mm, I saw that, but didn't want to confuse...
 
Glynis said:
As there is nowhere in the Universe below 0° Kelvin. Could heat be considered a universal inconsistent medium?
What in the heavens is a "universal inconsistent medium"?
If we were to go below 0° Kelvin, would total inertia follow?
"Total inertia"? What's that?
 
Glynis said:
As there is nowhere in the Universe below 0° Kelvin. Could heat be considered a universal inconsistent medium? If we were to go below 0° Kelvin, would total inertia follow?
Thanks,
Glynis
I'm sorry, but you've put a bunch of words together that doen't belong in the same sentences with each other. So I guess that means the answer to your questions is no.
 
What about adding heat to a object moving almost at light speed. when the atoms are moving back and forth in their extreme heat, wouldn't it make the speed of the atoms exceed the speed of light when they move towards the direction of the object? of an atom moves at a speed of 50 000 km\s back and forth very fast. and an object is moving 270 000 km\s it would be 320 000 km\s? (Data is totally imaginary)
 
No, it wouldn't. That's not the correct way to add velocities.
 
  • #10
Jarle said:
What about adding heat to a object moving almost at light speed. when the atoms are moving back and forth in their extreme heat, wouldn't it make the speed of the atoms exceed the speed of light when they move towards the direction of the object? of an atom moves at a speed of 50 000 km\s back and forth very fast. and an object is moving 270 000 km\s it would be 320 000 km\s? (Data is totally imaginary)

As Gokul said, and the reason is because you haven't considered the structure of geometry in which the atoms are contained in. This geometry is spacetime and all matter constains in it hence they must also obey its rules.
 
  • #11
Hmmm what rules are these then?

The atoms at great speeds vibrate "slower" compared to a object standing still so they will always move just below the limit of c?
 
  • #12
russ_watters said:
I'm sorry, but you've put a bunch of words together that doen't belong in the same sentences with each other. So I guess that means the answer to your questions is no.

Not to crap on the thread but this is the coolest quote ever. Should I make this my new signature or is thunderfvck's quote better? :biggrin:
 
  • #13
Glynis said:
As there is nowhere in the Universe below 0° Kelvin. Could heat be considered a universal inconsistent medium?
If we were to go below 0° Kelvin, would total inertia follow?
Thanks,
Glynis

Beware of what you say here.

T < O K IS POSSIBLE...But then again, such fenomena are very exotic. For example in some spin-systems (i mean many atoms and we only look at spin spin interactions) absolute NEGATIVE temperatures can arise. These temperatures are no really negative, but they need to be looked at as bigger then infinity...

The conditions for this to occur are for example that the spin-spin relaxation time is little compared to the spin lattice relaxation time. This means that the spins mutually interact long before thermal degrees of freedom come into play. KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THERMAL DEGREES OF FREEDOM HERE !



regards
marlon
 
Last edited:
  • #14
I completely do not understand negative temperature. Can someone explain it to me?
 
  • #15
Here's a good explanation: It does not exist, at least not in common sense.
 
  • #16
ShawnD said:
Not to crap on the thread but this is the coolest quote ever. Should I make this my new signature or is thunderfvck's quote better? :biggrin:
If you do, please fix the grammar - "sentences" should be singular.
 
  • #17
Glynis said:
... total inertia follow?

Would this be similar to total hypothermia? :confused:
 
  • #18
isn't it-theoreticaly- impossible to get to 0 K anywhere in the universe? I know we have gotten pretty close to 0K with liquid He and particle KE is reduced with some odd observations>
 
  • #19
Weave said:
isn't it-theoreticaly- impossible to get to 0 K anywhere in the universe? I know we have gotten pretty close to 0K with liquid He and particle KE is reduced with some odd observations>


I am not sure if it is impossible to get to 0 K but I know it is impossible to measure 0 K because the act of measurement will intefere with the system and raise its temperture in one way or another.
 
  • #20
How ironic! It is at least extremely hard to achieve 0 K, because we are always surrounded by energy at all times. At least that's what i think the reason is.
 
  • #21
Gokul43201 said:
What in the heavens is a "universal inconsistent medium"?
"Total inertia"? What's that?



Nobody has answered this yet...
 
  • #22
Leopold Infeld said:
Nobody has answered this yet...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokul43201 View Post
What in the heavens is a "universal inconsistent medium"?
"Total inertia"? What's that?


Nobody has answered this yet...

a medium that is not consistent through out the universe maybe?
 
  • #23
If in an isolated experiment someone reached 0 degrees Kelvin would there then be a chain reaction leading to total inertia, i.e. the death of the universe?
 
  • #24
"universal inconsistent medium"Hmm... well, heat is associated with chaotic disordered behavior, and is often a waste product or conversion penalty when other forms of energy convert to each other.

So I guess it is the universal "currency"/"expression" of chaos or randomness.

Can we call it a medium?
I thought the medium is something that would carry the heat/chaos/randomness. So should we call heat a "universal state of inconsistency" or "universal form of chaos"?

Even then, we have to say "a" and not "the", since you could say that the turbulence of the dynamic vacuum is yet another layer of chaos below that of heat.
 
  • #25
By a medium I mean being present to a greater or lesser degree, throughout the universe. I.e. that heat molecules must be present everywhere, even within a vacuum, as there must be some degree of heat throughout the universe.
 
  • #26
Glynis said:
By a medium I mean being present to a greater or lesser degree, throughout the universe. I.e. that heat molecules must be present everywhere, even within a vacuum, as there must be some degree of heat throughout the universe.

What are "heat molecules"? I hope you are not trying to resurrect the Caloric theory the way some people are trying to resurrect the ether.

I would also hope that you know that heat need not have any "molecules" or medium to be transfered. Look up "infra-red" radiation.

Zz.
 
  • #27
Mk said:
I completely do not understand negative temperature. Can someone explain it to me?

It's quantum mechanics.
 

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