Gravity & Light: Bending the Laws of Physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the conditions under which an object's mass begins to noticeably bend light, exploring the relationship between mass, distance, and light deflection. It includes theoretical considerations and mathematical formulations relevant to gravitational lensing.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the mass required for an object to noticeably bend light.
  • Another participant provides a formula for light deflection, indicating that the angle of deflection depends on both the mass of the object and the distance of closest approach, citing a source for the formulas.
  • A third participant reiterates the formula for light deflection and emphasizes the need to define "noticeable" to provide a numerical answer.
  • Further, a participant offers to calculate specific deflection if parameters such as mass and distance are provided, noting that deflection is proportional to mass and inversely proportional to distance for large distances relative to the Schwarzschild radius.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical relationships governing light deflection due to mass, but the discussion remains unresolved regarding what constitutes a "noticeable" bending of light.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on specific parameters and definitions, such as mass and distance of closest approach, which are necessary for further calculations.

Bladibla
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At what mass does an object start to noticeably bend light?
 
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The angle through which light is deflected by a massive object depends on both the mass of the object, and how close the light gets to the object.

For small angles, the formula is

[tex]\Theta = \frac{4GM}{bc^2}[/tex]

b is the impact parameter. This can be determined by the "distance" (really, the Schwarzschild r coordinate) at closest approach by the formula

[tex] b = \frac{r}{\sqrt{1-\frac{2GM}{rc^2}}}[/tex]

These formulas were taken from MTW, pg 672-4, with the units converted back to standard units from "geometric" units.

Those are the detailed formulas - you'll need to define "noticable" for us to give you a numerical answer.
 
pervect said:
The angle through which light is deflected by a massive object depends on both the mass of the object, and how close the light gets to the object.

For small angles, the formula is

[tex]\Theta = \frac{4GM}{bc^2}[/tex]

b is the impact parameter. This can be determined by the "distance" (really, the Schwarzschild r coordinate) at closest approach by the formula

[tex] b = \frac{r}{\sqrt{1-\frac{2GM}{rc^2}}}[/tex]

These formulas were taken from MTW, pg 672-4, with the units converted back to standard units from "geometric" units.

Those are the detailed formulas - you'll need to define "noticable" for us to give you a numerical answer.


Hmph, fair enough. I suspected it was a vague question. Sorry about that.
 
If you have some specific example in mind, we can caluclate the deflection, but we need the parameters (mass, and distance of closest approach).

I forgot to mention that the deflection by the above formula will be given in radians.

You can see by looking at the formulae that deflection will be proportional to mass, and for large r (much greater than the Schwarzschild radius) the deflection will be inversely proportional to the distance of closest approach.
 

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