Harmonics, Interferences, Autocorrelations, FFT

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of harmonics, interferences, autocorrelations, and FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) spectrum analysis, particularly in the context of using an amplifier and analyzing real data. Participants explore questions about the presence of harmonics, the effects of interference, and the functionality of autocorrelation in signal analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) questions why there are no harmonics (120Hz, 180Hz, 240Hz) present in the FFT output despite a significant 60Hz peak, suggesting possible conditions under which harmonics may or may not be created.
  • OP inquires whether the presence of interference affects the ability to obtain a clear FFT output, positing that as long as the amplifier does not saturate, the FFT can separate frequencies effectively.
  • OP asks if a peak near 300Hz (295Hz) should be classified as part of white noise or as a signal based on participant experience.
  • OP seeks clarification on the function of autocorrelation, questioning its ability to detect hidden harmonics within noise and what specific characteristics it looks for in signals.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the OP's approach, suggesting that reliance on simulation software without understanding the underlying mathematics may hinder learning.
  • Another participant notes that harmonics are typically associated with sound or music, indicating that power sources like AC lines may introduce noise that complicates signal analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views and remains unresolved, particularly regarding the nature of harmonics, the impact of interference on FFT results, and the role of autocorrelation in signal detection.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the mathematical foundations of signal analysis, and there are indications of assumptions about the conditions under which harmonics may be present or absent.

Ephant
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Hi I have some questions about the following:

60hz ac fft 2.JPG


1. It is an FFT spectrum analysis output from the Sigview software. First. The large peak at 60Hz is AC interference on air (maybe capacitive coupling) as the amplifier is completely battery operated. How come there are no 120 Hz, 180Hz, 240Hz harmonics? What situations when harmonics can be created and not created?

2. If the purpose of your amplifier is to get FFT, then there are no problems getting interferences as long as it won't saturate the amplifier, because the FFT can separate the frequency and you will still see the frequency even with all the interferences, right? This is the main question I need to know.

3. Is the peak near 300Hz (the 295Hz) considered part of the white noise or do you consider it a signal, in your experience?

4. When I pressed Autocorrelation, the following is the result. So Autocorrelations can't produce anything if it is only single frequency hidden (such as hidden harmonics) in the noise floor and it only look for signal that has reverse phase or something? What does autocorrelations exactly look for?

60hz ac fft 2 autocorrelation.JPG


I'm learning about harmonics, interferences, autocorrelations, FFT at the same time for general knowledge so as not to be ignorant. Thank you.
 
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@Ephant Yet again you are proving that it's not possible for you to learn anything from fiddling about with a simulation package. That package uses Mathematics to produce its results. I am confident that you are not capable of reverse engineering it to reveal the basics of the Maths behind signal analysis.
Avoid that simulation until you have some idea about the basics.
 
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sophiecentaur said:
@Ephant Yet again you are proving that it's not possible for you to learn anything from fiddling about with a simulation package. That package uses Mathematics to produce its results. I am confident that you are not capable of reverse engineering it to reveal the basics of the Maths behind signal analysis.
Avoid that simulation until you have some idea about the basics.

It's not a simulation. I'm using a real amplifier with data saved with Audacity wav. Then played the wav later at SigView and running the FFT spectrum analysis of real data.

I was asking if the amplifier was able to get the 60Hz signal on air or via capacitive coupling (as the amplifier is completely battery operated). Why doesn't it show the harmonics. If the harmonics is hidden in the noises. How come FFT didn't produce the harmonics, and neither did the autocorrelation.

But most important is. If the end result is FFT, where you can display all frequency. What is the problem with no shielding against interference as long as it won't saturate the amplifier. You can still acquire any signal amidst the noises using FFT.
 
Buy and read a text book, dude.
 
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OP is on a 10 day vacation from PF for multiple reasons, so we can all take a break in this thread. :smile:
 
Usually harmonics are present only in sound or music. Power from an outlet or an AC line is kind of "dirty" so there is going to be quite a bit of noise.
 
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El hilo está cerrado por moderación.
 
Lordy. OP is banned for cause.

Ephant said:
Whatever, now I don't have to dive below the noise floor to search for signal. I can simply scout the surface of the noise floor ocean. Now my Dark Lab will be more active and hopefully replicate a Sigmal 5 experiment that if verified can change everything, our view of the universe and more.
 
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