Hartle Gravity - Simple basis vector question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interpretation and calculation of basis four-vectors and their components as presented in Hartle's book, "Gravity." Participants explore the classification of a specific four-vector as timelike, spacelike, or null, while addressing potential confusion regarding the use of unit vectors and the calculations involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the values assigned to the basis vectors, suggesting that in special relativity, they should be the standard basis vectors of \(\mathbb{R}^4\), while in general relativity, they relate to the tangent space and depend on the coordinate system.
  • Another participant calculates the value of a four-vector and asserts it is timelike based on their interpretation of the components and the metric used.
  • A correction is made regarding the calculation, clarifying that the value being computed is actually \(a^2\) rather than \(a\), with the correct interpretation leading to a classification of timelike.
  • There is acknowledgment of confusion around the term "unit vector," which some participants clarify in the context of their calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of basis vectors and the calculations involved. While some corrections are made, no consensus is reached on the initial confusion regarding the unit vectors and their implications for the classification of the four-vector.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the definitions and calculations related to four-vectors, particularly in distinguishing between the components and their respective classifications based on the metric used.

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Helo all,

I have a very simple question about basis Four-Vectors and Components. In Hartle's book, Gravity, he uses the following equation to show the components of the 4-vector, a

a =a^t{}e(sub t) + a^x{}e(sub x) + a^y{}e(sub y) + a^z{}e(sub z)

Sorry for the half LaTex half something else but I couln't get the subscript LaTex command to work right. All it did was create another superscript.

Here is my question:

The e(subs) are a unit vector so there value should be -1 for the t component and 1 for the x, y, and z components correct?

For example, (this is problem 5.1)

The components of the 4-vector a^\alpha{} are (-2,0,0,1)

Is a timelike, spacelike, or null?

The value of a\alpha = -2(-1) + 0(1) + 0(1) + 1(1) = -1

Since -1 < 0, a is timelike.

Is the above correct ?

Thanks
Matt
 
Last edited:
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It's not. If this is special relativity, the basis vectors are just the standard basis vectors of \mathbb R^4. e_0=(1,0,0,0),\ e_1=(0,1,0,0) and so on. If it's general relativity, we're talking about basis vectors for the tangent space, and every coordinate system defines a basis as described here.

To determine if a four-vector u is timelike, null or spacelike, you must check if u^2=g_{\alpha\beta}u^\alpha u^\beta is <0, =0, or >0 respectively. If we're talking about the Minkowski metric with the -+++ convention, you have u^2=-(u^0)^2+(u^1)^2+(u^2)^2+(u^3)^2.
 
Fredrik,

Thanks.

The "unit" vector was causing me the confusion.

So the correct calculation for the value of a is

The value of a = -(-2(-2))+ 0(0) + 0(0) + 1(1) = -3

and a is timelike.

glamotte was also helping me out with this but the "unit" vector was causing me some confusion.

Thanks
Matt
 
It's the correct calculation, but what you're calculating isn't a, it's a2:

a^2=a^T\eta a=-(a^0)^2+(a^1)^2+(a^2)^2+(a^3)^2=(-2)^2+0^2+0^2+1^2=-3&lt;0
 
Yes, sorry for that. I understood it to be a^2, I just didn't show it in my post.

Thanks for the correction.

Matt
 

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