Has anyone ever dealt with limescale in a bathroom sink?

[kyphysics]

This black.

Do you think the black stuff by the "holes" is also mold? I could easily wipe the three big black spots in the dryer middle with white distilled vinegar. But trying to wipe the black stuff on the "grill" with holes seems sketchy and possibly dangerous. ...Do I really want white vinegar near that opening where presumably hot air comes out?

Parents are livid and sister freaking out about not being able to use the dryer until we call professionals in...lots of cursing under the roof.

What a day...tired as hell too. To all those out there with suspected mold problems - TAKE CARE OF IT SOON! Don't wait like me and let that stuff build up. You might get it into your clothes, wash, and dryer - among other places. Maybe if some minor good comes out of this is that it'll be a helpful life lesson for me (I was depressed all night) and possibly others.

I think I've identified the source of your rash.

maybe...gonna switch to dial and some liquid soap for a while. Thanks for the humor for an otherwise very emotionally upsetting day/night.

 

[Mark Harder]

I had a roommate once (he's still around) who tried Irish Spring once. Afterwards skin started peeling off. He had to take a shower to rinse the whatever-is-that! off. If you're getting a rash, don't blame the scum, unless it's the Irish Spring type.

Do you have neighbors on the same water system? If so, do they have the same problem? Does your water smell bad, eg. like hydrogen sulfide? If so, the problem could be a buildup of nearly insoluble sulfides on your porcelain. You can expect sulfide buildup in many geothermal areas, since ground waters can leach them from mineral deposits left by magma/lava in your aquifer. Many sulfides are dark-colored, including black.

If the stuff is to hard to remove with scotchbrite and bleach doesn't stop it, I don't think it's mold.
'Soap scum' is a deposit of calcium or magnesium (heavy metals maybe, see sulfide deposits) salts of the fatty acids in soaps. It's the reason for water softeners. I don't know if these work on sulfide salts, though. You need to ask.

Soap scum, sulfides and carbonates will all dissolve in muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid). Concentrated HCl may be too strong for your porcelain and plumbing. Come to think of it, some drain cleaners are concentrated sulfuric acid. Do the bottles of this stuff in the hardware stores tell you what you can and cannot use the stuff on? If you buy one of these, be very careful with it. It's crude concentrated H2SO4. It will eat through flesh, clothing, flooring, etc. If you dilute it, use a large, separate container and add the acid to the water, to avoid the exothermic reaction causing boiling and splatering you with hot acid.

Otherwise, I have no suggestions. But first thing, chuck the Irish Spring!

 

[kyphysics]

If you're getting a rash, don't blame the scum, unless it's the Irish Spring type.

Alright, guys. You all have convinced me to chuck the Irish Spring. Honestly, I never liked it myself. We always bought it for price - not quality.

Do you have neighbors on the same water system? If so, do they have the same problem? Does your water smell bad, eg. like hydrogen sulfide?

I'll ask my parents to ask around about water quality from neighbors. I'm too busy, atm. But, our water does not smell bad, thankfully. It smells pretty normal.

Soap scum, sulfides and carbonates will all dissolve in muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid). Concentrated HCl may be too strong for your porcelain and plumbing. Come to think of it, some drain cleaners are concentrated sulfuric acid. Do the bottles of this stuff in the hardware stores tell you what you can and cannot use the stuff on? If you buy one of these, be very careful with it. It's crude concentrated H2SO4. It will eat through flesh, clothing, flooring, etc. If you dilute it, use a large, separate container and add the acid to the water, to avoid the exothermic reaction causing boiling and splatering you with hot acid.

In that case, no way. I'll avoid HCI altogether. I know never to use the hardware store plumbing cleaners. I've heard horror stories about them eating through people's pipes. I stick with white distilled vinegar. My mom says she also never uses that stuff and only uses bleach once or twice a month to "cleanse" our pipes.

Lastly, I got an email from my big bro, who said to check out Bio-Clean for the possible pipe/drain build-up:



Amazon described it as:

What is BIO-CLEAN? BIO-CLEAN is a special combination of natural bacteria and enzymes that DIGESTS organic waste found in your plumbing system: grease, hair, soap scum, food particles, paper, cotton ... etc. BIO-CLEAN will not digest or have any effect on inorganic materials such as plastic pipe. It does not product heat, fumes or boiling like chemicals do. BIO-CLEAN is safe for people, plumbing, and the environment. How does BIO-CLEAN work? In nature all animal and vegetable matter is broken down and recycled into plant food by enzymes and bacteria. BIO-CLEAN uses this same principal to biodegrade organic waste that accumulates in your plumbing system. Like all living things, bacteria must "eat" to survive. Fortunately the grease, hair, soap film and organic waste are food for the bacteria in BIO-CLEAN. The enzymes prepare this "food" for the bacteria by breaking down the large molecules into a size the bacteria can "swallow". When mixed with water, BIO-CLEAN immediately goes to work! The enzymes are very fast and start breaking down waste on contact. BIO-CLEAN contains billions of bacteria and as they eat, they double in number every 30 minutes! Unrestricted by gravity, they spread through the entire plumbing system, devouring all the organic waste. Waste accumulates in your pipes causing slow, or even clogged drains. Within days BIO-CLEAN begins to eat through the gunk, restoring drain flow to full capacity. Monthly BIO-CLEAN treatments will keep your drains clean and trouble-free. Authorized by U.S.D.A for use in federally inspected Meat and Poultry Plants.

It's apparently safe enough to eat, as does the guy in the video demonstrates. 800+ positive reviews + Amazon's Choice label. Not sure if this is related to my "white stuff" issue, but the insides of my bathroom and shower pipes have what seems to be the SAME white coating to them. We don't see that white coating in other areas of the house. Maybe this Bio-Clean will help. Sounds way safer than the HCI you mentioned.

Anyhow, appreciate the Irish Spring humor (if it wasn't hyperbole, then WOW, I hope your roomie suffered the least amount possible)! As miserable as this situation is, I was told by my dermatologist to also be super careful with laundry and shower towels. Yeast infections can apparently easily spread from the laundry too! The freakin' week from hell I tell ya! The yeast infection comes several weeks after a fungal one...

 

[symbolipoint]

Title topic mentions limescale and bathroom sink. Not reading much past that, there are acidic hard-surface cleaners which may at least, control limescale buildup. Removal is slower. Vinegar can work. Some commercial products contain other acids, example being phosphoric acid. Some such products are given thickener materials to help the formulation stick to some surfaces for a while like if cleaning limescale from a toilet bowl, allowing for a little bit of soak time before wiping. The acid/s will dissolve or help to dissolve the limescale deposits, maybe not very well. The weak acid stuff like products containing acetic or phosphoric, may be safer to use than those containing hydrochloric acid. Not sure by how much. Some rubbing is often necessary. (Use gloves and goggles if you want to do the cleaning with more assurance of safety, regardless of which product you use).

Actually some commercial products give instructions to apply and let set for some time, several seconds or few minutes before wiping, rubbing or rinsing. This gives time for the product to dissolve/start dissolve the hard water scale.

 

[kyphysics]

Vinegar can work.

Yeah, vinegar does work, but I need a sink stopper to plug it up to fill the sink with vinegar and leave it for 30 minutes or more. I'm learning a lot about vinegar these days. Never knew it was a natural "cleaner" and even mold killer that is thankfully inexpensive.

You can get a huge bottle for under $1.00 at any grocery store.

 

[kyphysics]

Quick Follow-Up Question:

It's been recommended that to get the mold out of my laundry, as opposed to throwing away a lot of clothes (I did with one shirt, b/c it has some large patches of black streaks on it that I assumed were mold after it came out of the dryer and I didn't want to have that laying around and spores spreading everywhere) that I wash vinegar into my laundry load.

I've heard from half a cup to up to two cups of vinegar with a load.

Supposedly ammonia reacts very badly with vinegar and I've seen warnings to avoid it.

Does typical laundry detergent have ammonia? We use lots of liquid ones, but they don't show ingredients on the labels. Don't want to blow up the washing machine or have like dangerous gases released from the possible ammonia and white distilled vinegar reaction...or whatever harmful effect it typically produces.

Thanks!

 

[symbolipoint]

Quick Follow-Up Question:

It's been recommended that to get the mold out of my laundry, as opposed to throwing away a lot of clothes (I did with one shirt, b/c it has some large patches of black streaks on it that I assumed were mold after it came out of the dryer and I didn't want to have that laying around and spores spreading everywhere) that I wash vinegar into my laundry load.

I've heard from half a cup to up to two cups of vinegar with a load.

Supposedly ammonia reacts very badly with vinegar and I've seen warnings to avoid it.

Does typical laundry detergent have ammonia? We use lots of liquid ones, but they don't show ingredients on the labels. Don't want to blow up the washing machine or have like dangerous gases released from the possible ammonia and white distilled vinegar reaction...or whatever harmful effect it typically produces.

Thanks!

Acid (like vinegar) and ammonia will neutralize each other. No sense trying to mix them. Counter-productive! Wasted!

Laundry detergents containing ammonia? Maybe; probably NO. Best of memory, no. Not know for absolute sure. Maybe urea in some cheap liquid laundry detergents. Maybe some use of alkyl amines or alkyl ethanolamines in a few industrial laundry products. Still mixing with an acid would NOT make any sense, unless the purpose were to neutralize alkalinity AFTER usage of the laundry detergent.

 

[Tom.G]

I need a sink stopper to plug it up to fill the sink with vinegar

A piece of thin rubber, or several layers of plastic wrap or a plastic bag over the drain hole will do. It just has to be stiff enough that the pressure of the sink contents don't force it down the drain. One of the above used over a poorly fitting stopper would also do the trick.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[kyphysics]

Acid (like vinegar) and ammonia will neutralize each other. No sense trying to mix them. Counter-productive! Wasted!

Laundry detergents containing ammonia? Maybe; probably NO. Best of memory, no. Not know for absolute sure. Maybe urea in some cheap liquid laundry detergents. Maybe some use of alkyl amines or alkyl ethanolamines in a few industrial laundry products.

You're, right. I re-Googled the mix and it's not a toxic mix, but rather a neutralizing one if you combine vinegar and ammonia.

It was ammonia + bleach that was toxic.

I think I will soak (and maybe even wash entirely and exclusively) my clothes first with the white distilled vinegar to kill the mold in them. Then add detergent and run the regular full wash. I actually did a cycle of clothes this morning with vinegar + detergent. I washed them twice just to be sure (using same combo). In the future, I'll let the clothes soak first in vinegar and maybe even run them through some of the washing cycle before adding detergent.

Is that what you were getting at with this quote?:

Still mixing with an acid would NOT make any sense, unless the purpose were to neutralize alkalinity AFTER usage of the laundry detergent.

You're saying vinegar + detergent (even without ammonia) doesn't work for mold killing?

A piece of thin rubber, or several layers of plastic wrap or a plastic bag over the drain hole will do. It just has to be stiff enough that the pressure of the sink contents don't force it down the drain. One of the above used over a poorly fitting stopper would also do the trick.

Good problem-solving idea, Tom. G.

Would vinegar "eat" away the plastic wraps at all? It's really strong stuff.

Some Follow-Ups (for everyone)
1.) We are going to call and schedule a mold inspector appointment with a local company that does independent mold testing tomorrow. We found other contractors who do inspection and remediation, but through talking to my uncle (who is an engineer and more knowledgeable on household things than my deadbeat dad), it's not a good idea to go with a company doing both, as they have conflicts of interest.

Obv., they stand to make more money if your tests come back positive for mold. So, this was a good lesson/tip.

2.) We're all freaked out and going to do a replacement of washer/dryer in the future just to be safe. Gonna see what mold experts have to say about possible mold in the pipes and air vents.

3.) We have several windows with what look like mold in the screen area. Gonna have to get swabbed for a test to be sure. This stuff seems easily spread everywhere, though.

4.) re: really harsh plumbing liquids

This was discussed earlier. Curious why on Earth hardware stores sell these drain uncloggers if they are known to eat through people's pipes? Shouldn't there be a warning on them that they often destroy people's pipes? Seems a lot of people, unfortunately, still use them in their homes.

I came across some YouTube videos of the damage they cause. You can cost yourself thousands of dollars.

 

[Tom.G]

Would vinegar "eat" away the plastic wraps at all?

The two most common plastic films, polyethylene and vinyl, hold up well to vinegar. No worries with either of them. Polyethylene is the most common, it is used in food storage bags and the high density version (hard enough to hold its shape) is used for plastic milk jugs and to hold vinegar, ammonia, drain cleaner, etc.

 

[kyphysics]

The two most common plastic films, polyethylene and vinyl, hold up well to vinegar. No worries with either of them. Polyethylene is the most common, it is used in food storage bags and the high density version (hard enough to hold its shape) is used for plastic milk jugs and to hold vinegar, ammonia, drain cleaner, etc.

That does sound good. Is polyethylene the same as a saran wrap or a zip lock plastic bag material? Wondering what in the house I can use.

We tried a Home Depot sink stopper and it has a small gap that won't cover the sink hole. We also tried a rubber stopper of two sizes and both sizes didn't fit (one too small and the other too big. It's been a hell of a night with lots of yelling, as I've had to use my sister's sink.

On a personal note, Tom G., I greatly appreciate you (and everyone else's) expert feedback on things in this thread. I don't know much about chemistry and biology and even these common everyday house problems. But, this has been both emotionally frustrating as heck to deal with (fungal and yeast infections on my skin, a moldy dryer and clothes, mold in windows/sink/tub) and perhaps a very, very small silver liner educational as well.

Thank for your kind help and time! It's made a difference for me.

(p.s. I thank you for your post in the air purifier thread too, as that was helpful.)

Will update folks later next week maybe. I have work in a few hours and have a ton to do to get ready.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

That does sound good. Is polyethylene the same as a saran wrap or a zip lock plastic bag material? Wondering what in the house I can use.

We tried a Home Depot sink stopper and it has a small gap that won't cover the sink hole. We also tried a rubber stopper of two sizes and both sizes didn't fit (one too small and the other too big. It's been a hell of a night with lots of yelling, as I've had to use my sister's sink.

On a personal note, Tom G., I greatly appreciate you (and everyone else's) expert feedback on things in this thread. I don't know much about chemistry and biology and even these common everyday house problems. But, this has been both emotionally frustrating as heck to deal with (fungal and yeast infections on my skin, a moldy dryer and clothes, mold in windows/sink/tub) and perhaps a very, very small silver liner educational as well.

Thank for your kind help and time! It's made a difference for me.

(p.s. I thank you for your post in the air purifier thread too, as that was helpful.)

Will update folks later next week maybe. I have work in a few hours and have a ton to do to get ready.

Irish Spring makes my skin dry and itchy. My skin tends to peel with it. Using white Dove soap, the bar, leaves my skin moisturized. I follow this with lotion after a shower.
Aveeno, is a lotion i use...

 

[kyphysics]

re: Vinegar in laundry machine

Doh! I now am reading that you should NEVER put it into a washing machine, despite tons of DIY articles saying so (I think a few legit website articles as well)...Apparently, the acid will damage your hoses and rubber seals, as it eats away at them!

Very frustrating. You learn one thing and then you hear something else. I guess I'd have to hand wash the clothes using vinegar in a bucket or something. Having run about 12 loads of laundry this past week in our house using the vinegar + detergent combo, I hope our washer isn't messed up already or weakened so that it'll burst.

Irish Spring makes my skin dry and itchy. My skin tends to peel with it. Using white Dove soap, the bar, leaves my skin moisturized. I follow this with lotion after a shower.
Aveeno, is a lotion i use...

My skin is crazy itchy today. I cleaned up the sink of the mold and soap scum, but stuff was flying and sloshing around while I did it. I'm sure mold spores and whatever else probably splashed/flew all over.

I'm using Dove starting today. Parents and sister are still going to finish out Irish Spring pack (a few more bars left) to not waste it.

Did you find Irish Spring left a lot of soap scum, MD?

 

[CWatters]

Yeah, vinegar does work, but I need a sink stopper to plug it up to fill the sink with vinegar and leave it for 30 minutes or more.

What we do is soak paper towels in the stuff and press/lay them on the surface.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

re: Vinegar in laundry machine

Doh! I now am reading that you should NEVER put it into a washing machine, despite tons of DIY articles saying so (I think a few legit website articles as well)...Apparently, the acid will damage your hoses and rubber seals, as it eats away at them!

Very frustrating. You learn one thing and then you hear something else. I guess I'd have to hand wash the clothes using vinegar in a bucket or something. Having run about 12 loads of laundry this past week in our house using the vinegar + detergent combo, I hope our washer isn't messed up already or weakened so that it'll burst.
My skin is crazy itchy today. I cleaned up the sink of the mold and soap scum, but stuff was flying and sloshing around while I did it. I'm sure mold spores and whatever else probably splashed/flew all over.

I'm using Dove starting today. Parents and sister are still going to finish out Irish Spring pack (a few more bars left) to not waste it.

Did you find Irish Spring left a lot of soap scum, MD?

Yes, and so did Dial. I think these are the soap bars used in prisons. But I am not 100% sure.

 

[Mark Harder]

Yes, and so did Dial. I think these are the soap bars used in prisons. But I am not 100% sure.

A few more bars? Are they suicidal? Oh, nevermind.

 

[jim mcnamara]

This thread is now closed. Thanks for participating.