Hawking Radiation's Virtual Particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Hawking radiation and the nature of virtual particles created at the event horizon of black holes. Participants explore the distinction between virtual particles and real particles, particularly focusing on their behavior inside and outside the event horizon. The conversation includes theoretical implications and conservation laws related to energy and mass in the context of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why particles involved in Hawking radiation are considered virtual inside the event horizon but real outside of it.
  • A quote from Birrell and Davies is presented, suggesting that virtual particle pairs are created around the black hole, with one escaping and the other being trapped by the black hole's gravitational field.
  • Another participant reflects on a previous belief regarding the formation of particle pairs occurring inside the event horizon, indicating a shift in understanding based on earlier discussions.
  • There is a proposal that the particle pairs might be vacuum fluctuations, with the negative-energy particle entering the black hole and the positive-energy particle escaping, thus maintaining conservation laws of energy and mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the location of particle pair formation, with some asserting it occurs outside the event horizon while others have previously believed it to be inside. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific theoretical frameworks and literature, indicating that assumptions about the nature of virtual particles and their behavior in relation to black holes may vary. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding these assumptions.

rollcast
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Not sure if this is the right forum but hey ho..

I have been reading about Hawking radiation in Black Holes, whereby virtual particles are created at the event horizon and of the particle and anti particle pair 1 can escape before it is annihilated.

Why are the particles which make up the hawking radiation a virtual particle inside the Event Horizon but are real particles outside of the horizon?

Thanks
AL
 
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Quoting from Birrell and Davies, p264: " ...the continuous, spontaneous creation of virtual particle-antiparticle pairs around the black hole can be used to explain the Hawking radiation. Virtual particle pairs created with wavelength λ separate temporarily to a distance ≈ λ. For λ ≈ M, the size of the hole, strong tidal forces operate to prevent reannihilation. One particle escapes to infinity with positive energy to contribute to the Hawking flux, while its corresponding antiparticle enters the black hole trapped by the deep gravitational potential well on a timelike path of negative energy relative to infinity. Thus the hole radiates quanta with wavelength ≈ M."
 
rollcast, make sure you note what Bill K said only implicitly "while its corresponding antiparticle enters the black hole" which mean the formation is OUTSIDE the event horizon.

I was previously strongly of the belief that I had read that the formation was INSIDE the EH, but in a previous thread on this forum it was explained to me that I was wrong and why.
 
Thanks, makes a bit more sense when its outside the EH.
Are the particle pairs just vacuum fluctuations, and to obey conservation laws the negative one goes into the black hole and reduces the BH total energy and mass. The other positive particle is then emitted from the BH and adds energy and mass to the surrounding space so therefore conservation is maintained?
 
rollcast said:
Thanks, makes a bit more sense when its outside the EH.
Are the particle pairs just vacuum fluctuations, and to obey conservation laws the negative one goes into the black hole and reduces the BH total energy and mass. The other positive particle is then emitted from the BH and adds energy and mass to the surrounding space so therefore conservation is maintained?

That's my understanding.
 

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