Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

News Health Care Reform - almost a done deal? DONE!

  1. Mar 18, 2010 #1

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    It appears that the House will vote on Sunday; I think on the Reconciliation Act of 2010.
    http://www.rules.house.gov/bills_details.aspx?NewsID=4606 [Broken]

    Then it goes back to the Senate. However, as I understand this, the President can sign the bill passed by the House making it law until the Senate votes on the changes.

    I still haven't figured out the ins and outs of the Deem and Pass [known dysphemistically as Demon Pass] maneuver, but it seems the Dems have a path to get this done.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 18, 2010 #2
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    The Slaughter option (deem and pass) means that they pass a rule instead of a vote based on Yeas or Nays. It changes the rules of the house so that the House acts as though the bill passed with a vote of Yeas or Nays. This will undoubtedly draw a constitutional challenge if tried.

    If they had the votes, they would have done an up/down vote by now.

    ADD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-executing_rule
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2010
  4. Mar 18, 2010 #3
  5. Mar 18, 2010 #4

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Apparently this provides cover for Dems up for election who would not normally support the bill for fear of voter backlash.

    As I understand it, aspects of the bill not relating to budget issues were deleted.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  6. Mar 18, 2010 #5
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  7. Mar 18, 2010 #6
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Well, the democrat argument is that health coverage will save money on the budget, so it is a budget item. I see it as a rationalization in order to gain power over the insurance industry, which is about 1/6 of the total economy. I'll qualify that as an educated opinion.
     
  8. Mar 18, 2010 #7

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Imo, what is important is that this passes. Let the chips fall where they may. Most people actually support a good part of what's in the bill but they just don't know it. The Dems are betting that once people understand what was passed, more than not, the rest will be forgotten.

    We have to do something about the cost and state of health care. If we don't do this now, no one will touch it again for a very long time. There is no more time to wait. Things can always be amended later.

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
     
  9. Mar 18, 2010 #8

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    As far as legal challenges, I'll leave that up to the lawyers. The Republicans have used this technique 70% of the times it was used.
     
  10. Mar 18, 2010 #9

    turbo

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    The GOP is pulling out all the stops to kill this bill. Pass it now, with all of its warts, and fix it incrementally. The CBO has already said that the bill will reduce the deficit over time and add 32 million uninsured people to our health-care system.
     
  11. Mar 18, 2010 #10
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    As you know, I'm on the other side of this issue. I profoundly believe in property rights, and this bill will be the first time in history where the government is allowed to force citizens to buy a product. That is flatly unconstitutional, and I see much of the problems in America as direct results of our progressive deviation of small constitutional government. There are a lot of ways to reform health care without giving up our individual liberties.
     
  12. Mar 18, 2010 #11
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    The current CBO estimate is preliminary. The CBO scored it without seeing the bill yet. It's a little odd/troubling to me that the CBO comes out with the estimate on a bill that isn't even written yet.

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36091
     
  13. Mar 18, 2010 #12

    turbo

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    You want poor people to keep their individual "liberty" to have no access to preventative care, and rely on ER visits for emergent care when it is (often) too late to hope for positive outcomes, that drive up costs for all of us? Why?
     
  14. Mar 18, 2010 #13

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Bull
    http://www.cbo.gov/

    Uh, your link is dated March 1st.
     
  15. Mar 18, 2010 #14
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    The letter is from the CBO to the Speaker of the House. You be the judge.
     
  16. Mar 18, 2010 #15
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    The reconciliation hasn't happened yet, so it can't be officially scored. Thus its preliminary.
     
  17. Mar 18, 2010 #16
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Oh wait, it's been updated. They do have an official score today.
    They did not before. It's an article that's been kept up to date.
     
  18. Mar 18, 2010 #17
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Do Illegals get health care benefits also?

    Can you just walk into a hospital now and say "treat me?" Or do we get a card?
     
  19. Mar 18, 2010 #18
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    My state government requires I purchase auto insurance...so maybe not the 1st time.

    Besides, was it not the republicans that originally proposed the idea of an insurance mandate during the Clinton era? ...and now they are calling it unconstitutional?
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123670612" [Broken]
    I honestly don't see how they can keep their stories straight sometimes...talk about "Flip-Flopping". :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  20. Mar 18, 2010 #19
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Yes, I believe people in prisons get splendid healthcare! :biggrin:
     
  21. Mar 18, 2010 #20
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    You are not forced to buy auto-insurance any more than you are forced to drive on public roads.

    It's not republicans calling it unconstitutional. You guys have to understand that constitutional challenges originate from citizens.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  22. Mar 18, 2010 #21
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    If I do not, then I can get a hefty fine....the same as with the health insurance mandate. So neither one is being "forced" to buy a product, just installing a penalty if you don't.
     
  23. Mar 18, 2010 #22
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Like I said before, there is no law requiring you to get auto insurance. You can simply choose not to drive. Auto insurance is required in case you injure someone else. It's a faulty analogy. Even if the analogy wasn't faulty, your conclusion is faulty. The conclusion wouldn't be that neither one forces you to buy a produce. The conclusion would be that both forces you to buy a product. But, you are not forced to buy auto insurance.
     
  24. Mar 18, 2010 #23

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    To me, this is just another example of the fact that the free market is not the end-all solution to all problems. We have a free-market healthcare system now and it is clear that what we're doing isn't working. From dropped coverage upon illness, to denied coverage for pre-existing conditions, skyrocketing administrative costs in place of patient care costs, runaway patient costs, the looming costs of medicare and medicaid, and the 30 million+ people who have no coverage at all, in painfully real terms for many Americans, what we have now is barely more than a bad joke.
     
  25. Mar 18, 2010 #24
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    We do not have a free market solution in health care right now. There are a lot of boundaries inhibiting competition. Not the least of which is the ban on buying insurance across state lines, inhibiting choice.

    ADD: Choice drives down cost, because of competition.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2010
  26. Mar 18, 2010 #25
    Re: Health Care Reform - almost a done deal?

    Illegals always could do that. I'm not sure how this is going to work in the new bill. I'm pretty sure that illegals can't get federal subsidies for healthcare. Therefore they are probably also exempt from the mandate.

    One more thing I'm curious about is how this bill deals with older immigrants. Right now, noncitizens over 65 can't get Medicare (can't even buy it for the first 5 years in the country), and most private health insurance companies refuse to insure them. (The one insurance company I know of that does, Kaiser, charges a premium of $1000/month.) It would seem unfair to mandate those to have insurance, unless something is changed in their access to healthcare.

    BTW, as of this moment, Intrade gives the health care deal a 78% chance of passing. Big improvement from January (right after the Mass elections, they saw a 20-25% chance.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook