Health Care Reform - almost a done deal? DONE

[CRGreathouse]

No, I'm suggesting exactly what I said.

What you said was this (bracketed text mine):

[Insurance companies] did [charge 10 times more], that's why (almost) no individual can afford a major medical procedure without insurance.

So because insurance companies charge 10 times more, almost no individual can afford a major medical procedure without insurance.

That seems indefensible. If people can afford insurance now (a large majority of Americans are insured), and insurance companies have increased their rates tenfold, then you're saying that
1. People can afford 10 times the old cost of insurance
2. People can't afford the medical procedures provided by insurance

So for #1 and #2 to hold, insurance companies must be providing more benefits than costs (and more than 10 times the old cost in benefits).

 

[CRGreathouse]

Because even with an effective monopoly, there are limits, as you pointed out earlier.

Ah, so we agree that this is false:

The problem is, they don't compete for your business. They put prices as high as they want, because they know that eventually, you'll come to them.

No problem then.

 

[mheslep]

Medicare's chief actuary released a memorandum that confirms the increased deficits due to health care reform law (PPACA). The actuary forecasts "Federal expenditures would increase by a net total of $251 billion [2010-2019] as a result of the selected PPACA provisions"
Summary page 2:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_oact_memorandum_on_financial_impact_of_ppaca_as_enacted.html

I predict the actual costs will be worse yet when they come in years ahead. None of this is affordable. What a waste.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I predict the actual costs will be worse yet when they come in years ahead. None of this is affordable. What a waste.

I agree that costs are probably understated even now. But what, specifically, do you mean when you say, "What a waste"?

 

[mheslep]

I agree that costs are probably understated even now. But what, specifically, do you mean when you say, "What a waste"?

We had some good market oriented reforms on the table. The plan from McCain's advisor Douglas Holtz-Eakin that Obama-Biden demagogued to death during the campaign, and even better was http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/plan/#Healthsecurity" .

 

[mheslep]

On the topic of "keeping the coverage you have", I see in the same actuaries report (page 7):

We estimate that such actions [employers dropping coverage despite penalties] would collectively reduce the number of people with employer-sponsored health coverage by 14 million

brackets mine

 

[Char. Limit]

Ah, so we agree that this is false:



No problem then.

Are you calling me wrong? Listen, just because I have absolutely no experience with either health care, or insurance, or even economics, doesn't mean that my opinions are not always right!

(LOL, parody)

 

[CRGreathouse]

Are you calling me wrong?

Well, technically, in that post I was merely seeing if NeoDevin was calling you wrong.

 

[NeoDevin]

What you said was this (bracketed text mine):So because insurance companies charge 10 times more, almost no individual can afford a major medical procedure without insurance.

That seems indefensible. If people can afford insurance now (a large majority of Americans are insured), and insurance companies have increased their rates tenfold, then you're saying that
1. People can afford 10 times the old cost of insurance
2. People can't afford the medical procedures provided by insurance

So for #1 and #2 to hold, insurance companies must be providing more benefits than costs (and more than 10 times the old cost in benefits).

I thought we were still talking about hospitals, not insurance. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I thought we were still talking about hospitals, not insurance. Sorry for the confusion.

Oh. Yeah, sorry `bout that.

 

[mheslep]

CBO just bumped the cost of the health care bill another $115B over ten years, that is in addition to the doc fix increases; total cost now ~$1 trillion.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37081.html

 

[Char. Limit]

Are people still on about this whole bill? Wow.

 

[Al68]

Are people still on about this whole bill? Wow.

Apparently. Someone even resurrected a dead, year old thread about it.

 

[Char. Limit]

Apparently. Someone even resurrected a dead, year old thread about it.

Something gives me the feeling you're mocking me. And right now, in the mood I'm in, I'm not going to tolerate any mocking of me.

 

[mugaliens]

I thought it was done, dead, and gone when a Federal judge declared it unconstitutional...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I thought it was done, dead, and gone when a Federal judge declared it unconstitutional...

Really? You thought one Fed judge has the final say? That isn't how the law works.

There have now been three district court rulings upholding all of the health-care reform law, and two striking down the individual mandate as unconstitutional.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/02/another_judge_rules_health-car.html

 

[CAC1001]

The issue will be "done" when the SCOTUS lays down their ruling.