Heat loss in a conductor based on Fourier's law

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the admissible current density (Jadm) for conductors with varying insulation configurations, including uninsulated and insulated cases. Participants explore the implications of Fourier's law in relation to heat loss in conductors, addressing theoretical and practical aspects of electrical engineering and thermal dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a homework problem involving the calculation of Jadm for wires with different insulation layers and notes difficulties in modifying terms for various cases.
  • Another participant suggests that the temperature gradient within the wire must be considered, especially for the uninsulated case, while questioning the complexity of the resistance's dependence on temperature.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the temperature gradient in the conductor can be neglected, leading to a simplified equation for the conductor's temperature.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the definitions of variables K and S in the context of heat loss equations.
  • One participant references established methods (Nehrer and McGrath, IEC 60287) for calculating admissible current density and provides specific equations related to heat loss in cables.
  • A detailed formula for steady-state current calculation is shared, incorporating various heat loss rates and parameters relevant to conductor performance.
  • Specific numerical examples are provided to illustrate the calculations for a solid copper conductor, including derived values for heat loss and current capacity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of agreement on the importance of temperature gradients and the complexity of resistance calculations. There is no consensus on the best approach to modify terms for different insulation scenarios, and multiple competing views on the treatment of temperature gradients and heat loss remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about temperature uniformity, the dependence of resistance on temperature, and the specific conditions under which the equations apply. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

Cassius1n
Messages
13
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Find the admissible current density Jadm for a wire that has no insulation and also for a wire that has two layers of insulation and compare it to Jadm for the case when the wire has only one layer of insulation.2. The attempt at a solution and equations
In the image I've managed to find Jadm for the case with one layer of insulation, but for the other cases I don't know how to exactly modify the terms in order to obtain the jadm values. Corrections: s=(π*d^2)/4 , S=π*D*l,
WhatsApp Image 2018-06-07 at 17.33.57.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • WhatsApp Image 2018-06-07 at 17.33.57.jpeg
    WhatsApp Image 2018-06-07 at 17.33.57.jpeg
    23.4 KB · Views: 545
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
For the uninsulated case you will need to consider the temperature gradient within the wire. This is more complicated because the heat generation is distributed over the cross section. Strictly speaking, the resistance will depend on the temperature, but that makes it really complicated.
And to be exact, you would need to consider the gradient in the wire in the insulated cases too, but it probably becomes insignificant.

For two layers of insulation, I don't see the difficulty. Why isn't that just doubling the thickness?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Cassius1n
I think the temperature gradient in the cross section of the conductor itself may be neglected so θf is the entire conductor temperature.
Since θs=R*I^2/(K*S)+θa where θa=ambient [air] temperature
then θf=R*I^2*(1/(2*π*λ*l*ln(D/d)+1/(K*S)+θa)
In case of uninsulated conductor R*I^2=K*S*(θf-θa)
R depends on θf [ R=ρo*[1+α*( θf-20)]*lngth/scu
ρo= conductor resistivity at 20oC
α=0.00403 for aluminum and 0.00393 for copper.
K depends on exterior surface type [considering heat evacuation by convection and radiation together].
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Cassius1n
Babadag said:
In case of uninsulated conductor R*I^2=K*S*(θf-θa)
What are K and S here?
 
If someone intends to actually calculate the admissible current density -or at least the allowable current [ampacity or current carrying capacity] he has to follow Nehrer and McGrath method or IEC 60287-1-1 and 2-1.
From IEC 60287-2-1 for a cable in open air K[=T4*π*d]=1/h/∆s^(1/4) where h=Z/d^g+E
From Table 2 for a single cable Z=0.21 E=3.94 g=0.6 h=0.21/d^0.6+3.94
∆s=is the excess of cable surface temperature above ambient temperature
S=π*d*length
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Cassius1n
For bare conductor the steady state current could be calculated according to IEEE 738/2006 formula 1(b) :
I=SQRT((qc+qr-qs)/R(T)) where :
qc=Convected heat loss rate per unit length[W/m]
qr=Radiated heat loss rate per unit length[W/m]
qs=Heat gain rate from sun[W/m]
For natural convection [no wind]:
qc = 0.0205*ρf^0.5*D^0.75*(Tc −Ta)^1.25
qr=0.0178*D*ε*{[(Tc+273)/100]^4-[(Ta+273)/100]^4}
qs =α*Qse*sin(θ)*A'
where:
D=Conductor diameter[mm]
pf=Density of air[kg/m^3]
Tc=Conductor temperature[oC]
Ta=Ambient air temperature[oC]
ε=Emissivity (0.23 to 0.91)
α=Solar absorptivity (0.23 to 0.91)
A'=Projected area of conductor per unit length[m^2/m]
θ=Effective angle of incidence of the sun’s rays[degrees]
Qse=Total solar and sky radiated heat flux rate elevation corrected [W/m^2]
Let's say the conductor is a solid copper of 50 mm^2 cross section area [D= 7.8 mm ε=0.5 Tc=80oC no wind, no sun,Ta=40oC]
qc=10.19 W; qr=4,12 W; I=172.9 A; R(80Oc)=0.000478 ohm/m R*I^2=14.3 W/m; S=0.0245 m^2
Then K= 14.3/0.0245=584 W/m^2
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Cassius1n
Thank you for the help!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
3K