Solving Heat Transfer Problem with Geo-Thermal Energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around designing a cooling system that utilizes geothermal energy to cool water. Participants explore the properties of materials suitable for heat dissipation, mathematical modeling of the cooling process, and the dynamics of heat transfer in soil.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant discusses the temperature of the ground at 12 feet depth and proposes using PVC for its low thermal conductivity and resistance to rot and corrosion.
  • The same participant expresses uncertainty about determining the time constant "k" in Newton's law of cooling and seeks advice on correlating heat transfer in joules to temperature change.
  • Another participant suggests researching "ground source cooling" and warns about the implications of freezing the ground, noting that it would require thawing before normal operation can resume.
  • A different participant questions the logic of freezing the ground when the goal is to cool water, indicating a misunderstanding of the cooling process and its implications for the surrounding soil.
  • One participant emphasizes the dynamic nature of the problem, highlighting the need to understand soil recovery rates and the significance of various factors such as conductivity, exposed surface area, water saturation, and rate of replenishment.
  • Another participant reiterates the concern about heating the soil and the limitations of the local volume of Earth being heated, suggesting that excessive heating could impair cooling performance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of heating the soil and the feasibility of the proposed cooling system. There is no consensus on the best approach or the effectiveness of the proposed materials and methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various factors affecting heat transfer, such as material properties and environmental conditions, but do not resolve the complexities involved in modeling the system or the assumptions underlying their claims.

JonathanM
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Hi,
I am currently faced with a problem. I am trying to design a cooling system that uses Geo-Thermal energy to cool water. From my research I have found that 12 feet below the Earth in the month of August the temperature is maintained at approximately 62-65 degrees Fahrenheit.

I would like to utilize this natural energy to cool water. Right now I am trying to determine the best type of material that can be placed 12 feet below the surface of the Earth to maximize heat dissipation from the water into the soil.

My goal is to come up with the right material to achieve timely cooling (I am thinking of using PVC its thermal conduction is low but on the upside it does not rot or corrode).

Secondly I would like to come up with a mathematical equation for the system, so that I can tell exactly what the temperature of the water would be at a given time (here is where I am having difficulties)

At the moment I am aware of 2 formulas

1) Newtons law of cooling: T(t) = Ta + (To - Ta)*e^(-kt)

2) Conduction Law: Q = [(K)(A)(Tw-Tc)(t)]/L

Where K = thermal conductance of material; units : J/(s m degree Celsius)
A = Cross sectional Area; units : m^2
Tw = Warm temperature
Tc = Cool temperature
t = time in seconds
L = length; units: m

The first formula will give me the temperature at a given time however I would need to determine the time constant "k" for the material that I am using (not sure how to to that unless I do a physical test first to find values for T(t), Ta, To and t then solve for k).

The seconds formula gives me the amount of heat transferred in Joules (how does heat transferred in joules correlate to temperature transferred?)

I would appreciate some advice because I feel I am not quite understanding the dynamics of how to approach this problem or even if I am using the right formulas to do so.

Thanks
J
 
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Ummmm...he is trying to cool the water. Sooooo he is heating the earth...why would it freeze?
 
your problem is that it is dynamic... First, you are heating the soil, this requires knowing the rate of recovery of the soil,, (the heat transfer rate of your plumbing is insignificant by comparison, although copper is best). The variables here are, conductivity, Exposed surface area, water saturation and rate of replenishment (this is where experimentation is your best option..).
 
jerrybault said:
Ummmm...he is trying to cool the water. Sooooo he is heating the earth...why would it freeze?

Sorry, I was thinking about a heat pump system, in the winter. The point I attempted to make is that the local volume of Earth you are heating is limited, and once you heat it up too much, that volume will need to cool back down before you can get the same cooling performance as at initial conditions. You not only lose the delta Temp needed to get your heat transfered, but you have to rely on conduction of heat in the soil, which is slow.
 

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