Heating Gases: Can We Make Protons Fly?

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    Gases Heating Protons
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of heating gases to the point where protons can be removed from atomic nuclei, similar to how electrons can be ejected. Participants explore the energy requirements and processes involved in ionization and nuclear reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether heating a gas can lead to protons being ejected, similar to electrons.
  • Another participant clarifies that while electrons can be removed from atoms through heating and ionization, protons cannot be easily removed from nuclei without significant energy input, typically requiring nuclear reactions.
  • A third participant explains that ionization occurs through atomic collisions at high temperatures, providing specific energy thresholds for removing electrons and discussing the relationship between kinetic energy and temperature.
  • A later reply reiterates the distinction between electrons and nucleons, noting that while extreme heating can lead to nuclear disintegration, this is a complex process rather than a straightforward state change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that electrons can be removed from atoms through heating, but there is disagreement regarding the feasibility of removing protons from nuclei through similar means, with some asserting it is not possible without nuclear reactions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the significant energy differences required for electron removal versus proton removal, as well as the complexity of nuclear processes compared to atomic ionization.

harp AP 2010
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If we can heat a gas so that the electrons "fly" off, can we heat one so that the protons do?
 
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When you say fly off, what do you mean? In any case a plasma consists of ionized particles and free electrons. If you mean by fly off, can you get a proton out of a nucleus this way - the answer is no, since it takes a lot more energy than simply heating.
 
Electrons surround the nucleus and can be removed by visible light (several eV) or higher energy photons (10 eV to kev), such as UV, X-ray (keV) or gamma ray(high keV to MeV). If one heats a gas hot enough, then the atomic collisions can cause electrons to be knock off atoms or molecules. The degree of ionization will depend on the density and temperature of the gas/plasma.

A particle kinetic energy of 1 eV corresponds to a temperature of ~11605 K, so 1 keV ~ 11.6 million K, and 1 MeV ~ 11.6 billion K.

Removing nucleons, i.e., protons and electrons, from the nucleus of an atom normally requires nuclear reactions involving nucleons, electrons, and even photons in the MeV range.
 
harp AP 2010 said:
If we can heat a gas so that the electrons "fly" off, can we heat one so that the protons do?

Atomic nuclei are made of protons and neutrons, they aren't something that protons and neutrons are attached to. That said, if you get things hot enough, nuclei will start to break apart. This is a process, though, not a state of matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodisintegration
 

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