Heisenberg and the wave-particle dualism

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    Heisenberg
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Heisenberg's remarks on wave-particle dualism and its representation in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the mathematical transformations between different formulations of quantum theory, such as the Heisenberg and Schrödinger pictures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding Heisenberg's statement about wave-particle dualism and requests clarification on the mathematical transformation he mentions.
  • Another participant questions the relevance of using a 60-year-old text for learning physics.
  • Some participants propose that the "simple transformation" refers to the ability to switch between the Heisenberg and Schrödinger pictures in quantum mechanics, noting that both are mathematically equivalent for computing probabilities.
  • There is a suggestion to look up the Schrödinger Equation for further understanding.
  • A later reply acknowledges the connection between the different pictures and wave-particle dualism, indicating that the participant has gained clarity on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is a connection between the different pictures in quantum mechanics and wave-particle dualism, though the specifics of the mathematical transformation remain unclear and are not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of Heisenberg's statements and the exact nature of the mathematical formalism that reflects wave-particle dualism.

parton
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Hi!

I am a bit confused about something Heisenberg said about the wave-particle dualism.
In his book about physics and philosophy he wrote:

"The dualism between the two complementary pictures - waves and particles - is also clearly brought out in the flexibility of the mathematical scheme. The formalism is normally written to resemble Newtonian mechanics, with equations of motion for the co-ordinates and the momenta of the particles. But by a simple transformation it can be rewritten to resemble a wave equation for an ordinary three-dimenslonal matter wave."

Could anyone tell me how these equations and in particular, this "simple transformation" explicitly looks like?

Thanks!
 
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Are you trying to learn physics from a 60 years old popular text?
 
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If I had to guess, I would say Heisenberg is referring to the ease that one can switch between different "pictures" in quantum physics.

In the Heisenberg picture, the observables evolve in time, while the quantum state is fixed.
In the Schrödinger picture, the observables are fixed, while the quantum state evolves in time.

When it comes down to computing any probabilities or observable statistics, these two pictures are mathematically identical, though sometimes one picture ends up being easier to use than the other.

For a fuller description, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_picture
 
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Moderator's note: thread level changed to "I".
 
parton said:
Could anyone tell me how these equations and in particular, this "simple transformation" explicitly looks like?

Have you tried looking up "Schrödinger Equation"?
 
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Orodruin said:
Are you trying to learn physics from a 60 years old popular text?
No, actually I already studied physics some time ago. But now when I read this text from Heisenberg (which is quite interesting to read even nowadays), I am not sure what he really means at this point.

jfizzix said:
If I had to guess, I would say Heisenberg is referring to the ease that one can switch between different "pictures" in quantum physics.
But is there really a connection between the different pictures and the wave-particle-dualism? Or is there something else in the mathematical formalism that reflects this dualism?
 
parton said:
"The dualism between the two complementary pictures - waves and particles - is also clearly brought out in the flexibility of the mathematical scheme. The formalism is normally written to resemble Newtonian mechanics, with equations of motion for the co-ordinates and the momenta of the particles. But by a simple transformation it can be rewritten to resemble a wave equation for an ordinary three-dimenslonal matter wave."

Could anyone tell me how these equations and in particular, this "simple transformation" explicitly looks like?
Google Heisenberg picture and Schrödinger picture.
A compact summary is given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger_picture#Summary_comparison_of_evolution_in_all_pictures
 
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Ok, now I understand. You are right. Indeed, it is related to the different pictures, I just needed to remember :)
Thank you very much!
 
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