Help Finding the Transfer Function H(s)=Vi(s)/Ii(s)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the transfer function ##H(s)=\frac{Vi(s)}{Ii(s)}## for a circuit consisting of an inductor, resistor, capacitor, and additional resistive components. Participants explore various approaches to derive the transfer function, including the use of complex impedance and circuit analysis techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an initial attempt at deriving the transfer function using impedance values for the inductor and capacitor.
  • Another participant suggests multiplying both the numerator and denominator by ##j\omega## before substituting ##s## for ##j\omega## to simplify the expression.
  • A different approach is proposed, where participants could use ##s## from the beginning instead of substituting later.
  • One participant reworks the problem and presents a new expression for the transfer function, but questions the equivalence of their result with another participant's answer.
  • Another participant confirms that their derived answer matches after checking zeros and poles of the function.
  • A suggestion is made to verify the correctness of the transfer function by evaluating it at specific limits (s=0 and s→infinity) to check consistency with circuit behavior.
  • One participant advises retaining component symbols until the end of the solution instead of introducing numerical values early on.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the best approach to derive the transfer function, and there is no consensus on the equivalence of the various derived expressions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the final answers presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' solutions depend on specific assumptions about the circuit configuration and the treatment of impedances. There are unresolved mathematical steps in the derivations, and the discussion reflects varying levels of clarity in the approaches taken.

Captain1024
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Homework Statement



Find the transfer function ##H(s)=\frac{Vi(s)}{Ii(s)}##

The circuit consists of a voltage source and a 5H Inductor in series with a 10Ohm Resistor which are in parallel with a 10uF Capacitor in series with a 500Ohm Resistor. ##\rightarrow## Diagram here.

Homework Equations



Parallel Impedances: ##Z_{eq}=\frac{Z1Z2}{Z1+Z2}##

##s=j\omega##

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
##5H\ \rightarrow\ j\omega5##
##10\mu F\ \rightarrow\ \frac{1}{j\omega10^{-5}}##
##Z_1=j\omega5+10##
##Z_2=\frac{1}{j\omega10^{-5}}+500##
##V_i=\frac{Z_1Z_2}{Z_1+Z_2}I##

##V_i=\frac{\frac{j\omega5}{j\omega10^{-5}}+j\omega2500+\frac{10}{j\omega10^{-5}}+5000}{j\omega5+\frac{1}{j\omega10^{-5}}+510}I##

##H(s)=\frac{V_i}{I}=\frac{5.05e5+(1.0025e6)s}{5s+\frac{10e5}{s}+510}##
 
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Before you replace jw by s, multiply both numerator and denominator by jw to get a tidier form.
 
NascentOxygen said:
Before you replace jw by s, multiply both numerator and denominator by jw to get a tidier form.
I have to go to sleep now. I will be back at it tomorrow afternoon.
 
You could have used s right from the start.
5H → s5
10uF → 1/(s10-5)

Then V(s) = Z(s).I(s)
 
Problem reworked:

##j\omega5\ \rightarrow\ 5s##
##\frac{1}{j\omega10^{-5}}\ \rightarrow\ \frac{1}{10^{-5}} \frac{1}{s}\ \rightarrow\ \frac{10^5}{s}##

##Z_1=5s+10##
##Z_2=\frac{10^5}{s}+500##
##V_i=Z_{eq} I_i##
##\frac{V_i}{I_i}=\frac{(5s+10)(\frac{10^5}{s}+500)}{5s+10+\frac{10^5}{s}+500}##

##=\frac{5e5+2500s+\frac{10^6}{s}+5000}{5s+\frac{10^5}{s}+510}##

##=\frac{5.05e5+2500s+\frac{10^6}{s}}{5s+\frac{10^5}{s}+510}(\frac{s}{s})##

##=\frac{2500s^2+(5.05e5)s+10^6}{5s^2+510s+10^5}##

Correct answer: ##H(s)=\frac{0.25s^2+5.05s+10}{(5e-5)s^2+(5.1e-3)s+1}##

These two answers do not seem equivalent to me? Where am I going wrong?
 
I just verified by finding the zeros and poles. My answer matches. Thanks for the guidance.
 
When you don't have the correct answer to compare yours with, a simple check you can do is ask: what is H(s) when s=0. This is the DC value, which inspection of your circuit indicates is the inductor branch with its 10 ohms. Also, when s → infinity you have the high frequency impedance, here being the 500 ohms in the capacitive branch. If these two extremes of H(s) check okay, there's good reason to be optimistic the rest of your work is right.
 
Rather than introduce numbers early in the solution, you should retain the component symbols until the end.
 

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