Help! Old PC dog has to learn new Mac tricks

[DaveC426913]

Those of us who have been here a long time will know that nothing will ever, ever change his mind.

Is this yet another personal dig?
This thread is 5 months old, and I have a reputation that "nothing will ever, ever change my mind"?

Or even get him to say "It's a personal choice, and I would have preferred it done the other way". The best we can do is wait for him to run out of steam.

Or not post if we have nothing constructive to add. Never mind dragging someone for being frustrated and struggling.


Congratulations Vanadium50, for being the first member in my 20 years on PF that is so regularly and unnecessarily rude that they have been put on Ignore.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Is this yet another personal dig?

Not intentionally. It's taste. You will not convince anyone that your taste is better than another's. And vice versa. Because it's taste.

This thread is 5 months old

And you're still griping that Macintoish is not to your liking. After five months, we get it.

Do you think another 5 months will change your mind? And if not, aren't you agreeing with me?

 

[PeterDonis]

Do you think another 5 months will change your mind?

Since he's being required to use a Mac for his job, it's not a matter of changing his mind. It's a matter of changing his employer's mind. Which doesn't seem likely. Given that, I sympathize with his ranting. Even more so as I have similar reactions to Apple products. Fortunately I am not required to use a Mac for work (I am forced to use Windows, which also sucks, but given the choice between suckages I will take Windows suckage over Mac suckage--for my personal computing I've been using Linux for more than 20 years now so as to avoid both). But I am required to use an iPhone and I regularly rant at it and wonder why in tarnation Apple products have any kind of reputation for usability.

 

[Vanadium 50]

t's a matter of changing his employer's mind.

That's fair. But "how do I change my employer's mind" is not really the direction this thread has gone.

I am also not a big fan of the Apple UI. But "I don't like the Apple UI" is about as useful a basis of discussion as "I don't like Brussels sprouts". (And a separate question from 'how do I get the company's cafeteria to serve them less often")

A fair comment is also "Program XYZ does not follow the Apple UI standards." However, that's not Apple's fault. I's XYZ's. Blaming it on Apple is somewhere between unproductive and counterproductive.

Audi has something called the "MMI interface", used for everything from tuning the radio to setting the air flow. For almost a decade, customers complained it was backwards: turning it CW move up the menu, and CCW moved it down. Audi's response was "you're all just wrong - this is the One Right Way To Do It." They finally relented a few years ago.

 

[PeterDonis]

"how do I change my employer's mind" is not really the direction this thread has gone.

True. But it hasn't gone the way of pure ranting either. The OP has asked specific questions and gotten specific answers.

 

[jedishrfu]

Employers consider switching to Macs from Windows boxes when they see the Forrester report:

https://www.macworld.com/article/677841/macs-are-cheaper-to-own-than-pcs-forester.html

Our lab switched from a mix of Macs and Windows (i.e., employees could choose) to an all-Windows shop with WSL for Linux access. The main reason was how Apple deployed updates for each OS version by changing the servers that deployed the changes. This required the site to change its firewall settings on a new OS version. They also removed admin access for everyone except the site admins.

Personally I preferred the Mac environment over Windows where I had to constantly request new plugins, software... when I needed to do something. Many times on Mac it was already present and ready to use.

Perhaps you could ask for a deviation to have a Windows box. A use case might be some website doesn't work and so having a windows box you could determine if it was MacOS or the website. As an example, Safari and Chrome work well with tax return software but the Brave Browser doesn't.

 

[DaveC426913]

The OP has asked specific questions and gotten specific answers.

Indeed. Every post of mine in this thread is about a specific problem I am currently having and cannot solve.

I'm not just free-range slagging all things Mac. I'm not looking for attention and I'm not just being bloody-headed.

I really need answers that I can't seem to find anywhere else, because this is for work, and it's making me look a little incompetent when I have to stop and figure out how to do a basic task that ought to be easy. The fact that no one else seems to know kind of vindicates my defense that's it not just my personal comfort zone that's at fault.

The ranting is merely a symptom of the fact that - by the time I resort to begging you guys - I am usually at wit's-end.

 

[JT Smith]

The ranting is merely a symptom of the fact that - by the time I resort to begging you guys - I am usually at wit's-end.

Wit's end? I can't help but wonder what makes you so easily perturbed. I'm not a Mac fanboy and greatly prefer to use the keyboard for a multitude of operations where I don't have that choice. But wit's end? Really?

In order to enter this post I had to go from keyboard to mouse and then back again. Oh the horror!

And if that 1.5 seconds is really as mentally excruciating as you say then consider turning off the automatic dock hide/show feature. To maximize usable screen real estate it helps if you make the icons as small as you can while still being discernible, and put the dock on the side. Of course if you have a tiny monitor (like a laptop) that might not work. In that case consider getting a 27" external monitor. Two is even better if you are constantly switching back and forth between windows.

So there's some real advice for you. But, like Vanadium, I doubt it matters.

 

[DaveC426913]

Wit's end? I can't help but wonder what makes you so easily perturbed.

What makes you assume it happens easily?

I'm zooming through a project at full tilt, hands blurring, with a deadline I'm to meet because others depend on my deliverable that has to be error-free. It gets pretty aggravating if every thirty seconds I have to grind my concentration to a halt to babysit my computer for 5 seconds, That will burn my patience pretty quick.

My job is not stressful, I'm not overworked, but simply put, I am faster than my computer is.

Maybe compare it to sailing, where you can get up a nice head of speed - if the fender wouldn't keep dropping in the water, so you have to stop and pull it out. You are stuck with the boat, and no one knows how to secure fenders on this boat. So you just keep stopping. Not no mention the boat has a half dozen other similar bugaboos that interrupt other important tasks. How long would you stay patient?

I don't really think I need to justify my frustation. Surely we can all empathize with constantly being interrupted by things you can't fix while trying to concentrate.

And if that 1.5 seconds is really as mentally excruciating as you say then consider turning off the automatic dock hide/show feature.

Ok. I'll do that. It's not great, but it solves one problem while creating another. But I'll do my best.


Does that really warrant this?

But, like Vanadium, I doubt it matters.

I mean, why so?

The thread title is apt.

I'm asking specific questions to specific problems. It's not like I'm rejecting peoples' advice. And the fact that I learn how to cope with one problem doesn't mean the next one doesn't mess me up. So I have to keep finding solutions.

Is it possible you're missing the questions and just reading the ranty bits in between?

 

[jedishrfu]

A cautionary tale of UI customization. Years ago at my old company, we were porting a new user experience on top of OS/2. Our everyday machines were OS/2 based. It had a lot customization features similar to windows.

One coworker was always tweaking his setup. He had custom icons, scripts and tools all mapped to his desktop. In contrast, i kept a minimal desktop with working files and tended to use the command line to get things done. I had custom scripts and tools accessible by command line or in rare cases the desktop.

My coworkers customizations were stired in a central SOM database similar to the windows system database.

While doong some tests of SOM on his machine he inadvertently wiped out all of his changes. They were utterly gone gone gone. He didnt take it to well. I told thats why i choose the minimal approach. He scoffed and went back reconfigure everything. It took a few days to complete.

Bottomline one should adapt to the OS youre using and not go crazy trying to make it look like windows so much.

With respect to webpage urls on the desktop they could instead be saved as favorites in the browser that appear when you create a new tab or page.

 

[DaveC426913]

In contrast, i kept a minimal desktop with working files and tended to use the command line to get things done

Yeah. Not to your degree but I am of the philosophy that over-customization of any electronic device is a ticking time bomb. Maybe a better analogy is a Jenga Tower.

Every device, from PC to phone to router to TV to Blutooth wall outlet will always need resetting or rebooting or upgrading or reimaging. And usually those customizations are lost in the process. Better not to depend on them any more than you have to.

 

[Algr]

I was gobsmacked that Mac users needed an aftermarket tool to tab between apps.

No. It is Command-tab on a Mac by default. I usually switch apps using Mission control: I press the side button on my mouse, and all windows in every app shrink and rearrange to fit. Then I click on the window I want, and it enlarges. (Apple's mouse does this with a gesture, but I use a wired USB one.)

 

[JT Smith]

Every device, from PC to phone to router to TV to Blutooth wall outlet will always need resetting or rebooting or upgrading or reimaging. And usually those customizations are lost in the process. Better not to depend on them any more than you have to.

That's one way to go about it. I prefer to customize to suit my style. For example, by default the mouse on a Mac is configured to scroll downward when your finger moves down, akin to scrolling on a phone. But in all my pre-Mac years the mouse worked the other way and that's what I grew to be used to. There's nothing intrinsically correct about one way or the other. It's a preference. That's why it's a "System Preference".

I've upgraded my OS numerous times and it always remembers this and all my other customizations. Someday my customizations may be lost and I'll have to reset them, if I can. And when I use someone else's computer I have to adapt on the fly to how their machine is configured. BFD.

 

[JT Smith]

Is it possible you're missing the questions and just reading the ranty bits in between?

There's definitely a tone that permeates this thread and others. I can almost always tell from the title alone that it's one of yours. They're harmless though and can be entertaining. So carry on.

 

[DaveC426913]

No. It is Command-tab on a Mac by default.

If I have, say, six apps open, I can Cmd-Tab to any one of them - but only four or five of them will actually come up. One or two of them will not.

I'm trying it right now. Cmd-tab to:
Chrome: Yes.
Slack. Nope.
Finder: Nope.
Photoshop: Yes
Word: Nope.
etc.

At this point, I have to allow for the possibility that my OS is pooched somehow. But that was the point of the visit to IT, and we know how that went.

 

[Algr]

Do I understand; For the finder to "come up" means that the other programs windows get out of the way? Mission control can do that. Try Command F3.
Regular F3 does the all-windows-smaller thing.

 

[DaveC426913]

There's definitely a tone that permeates this thread and others. I can almost always tell from the title alone that it's one of yours. They're harmless though and can be entertaining. So carry on.

I'm pretty informal and a little levitous outside the hard sciences. Not sure it warrants a judgement of "I doubt it [advice] matters".


But I do reserve the right to whinge here in my rant thread.

 

[Algr]

But I do reserve the right to whinge here in my rant thread.

Let's whinge together! I know when I have to use Windows I find it awkward as hell. It takes forever to find anything, and it is totally different from the last Windows I had to use.

 

[DaveC426913]

Do I understand; For the finder to "come up" means that the other programs windows get out of the way?

Cmd-tab shows a horizontal list of icons of all open apps. Currently I have ten apps open.

I can Cmd-tab to any app, and then release to select it. Some work, some do not.

If I start manually selecting apps, and I go through a few, then the Cmd-tab list of working apps will be different.

So it's almost as if it will only remember the last X apps I've touched, and forgets the rest like a snake eating it own tail.

Mission control can do that. Try Command F3.

Cmd-F3 removes everything from my desktop to off-screen. Unless I want the desktop, this is useless.

Regular F3 does the all-windows-smaller thing.

This shows me three of the ten apps that are currently open. The rest are not visible.

If I start manually selecting apps, and I go through a few, then F3 the selection will be different.

So again, it's almost as if it will only remember the last X apps I've touched, and forgets the rest, like a snake eating it own tail.


That being said, F3 looks pretty useful. It does not pull up all my open apps, but it does pull up my dock as well.

 

[JT Smith]

I'm pretty informal and a little levitous outside the hard sciences. Not sure it warrants a judgement of "I doubt it [advice] matters".

I can see how that my have come across as a judgement. I guess it was in way. I judged that my comments would have little if any effect upon the trajectory of this thread. Will they? I doubt it.

 

[Algr]

I can Cmd-tab to any app, and then release to select it. Some work, some do not.

Hmmm...
On a Mac you can have a program running with no windows open. So tabbing to that program won't open up a new window. You should still see the program's name in the menu bar though. If that is what is going on, you can then open up a new document from the menu bar or hit Command N. Alternately, you can double click a document from the finder, and it will switch to whatever app opened it automatically.

 

[DaveC426913]

I can see how that my have come across as a judgement. I guess it was in way. I judged that my comments would have little if any effect upon the trajectory of this thread. Will they? I doubt it.

Your suggestion of the F3 and a few other things was very helpful.

But if I am leading anyone to believe I am not taking advice and that I don't think this is helping me, then I have seriously misrepresented myself. That's at least two people now who seem to read this as if I'm just ranting and rejecting all helpful advice. It may be better if I just close this thread rather than do further damage. I will consider.

 

[PeterDonis]

It may be better if I just close this thread rather than do further damage.

I don't know that that's necessary. As I noted in a previous post (which you referenced in one of your own), it is recognized that you are asking specific questions and getting specific answers.

 

[PeterDonis]

I judged that my comments would have little if any effect upon the trajectory of this thread. Will they? I doubt it.

Comments that the OP has done some ranting have not had much of an effect, no. Nor should they, since, as has been noted, the OP has also been asking specific questions and getting specific answers. So the thread is providing value. That is a significant effect on the trajectory of the thread.

 

[DaveC426913]

Hmmm...
On a Mac you can have a program running with no windows open. So tabbing to that program won't open up a new window.

No, these are docs that I have open but have tabbed away from or perhaps minimized. I am fully cognizant of when docs have been closed.

You should still see the program's name in the menu bar though.

I do, but some of these are single page apps, like Slack , so the idea of multiple docs in the same app doesn't apply.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't know that that's necessary. As I noted in a previous post (which you referenced in one of your own), it is recognized that you are asking specific questions and getting specific answers.

Thanks. I was beginning to think I was going crazy.

What I will do moving forward is separate out* the rhetoric of broadly complaining from the actual requests for help. I will take responsibility for making readers slog through the unhelpful anguish when all they are really trying to do is help.

*maybe I'll use < rant > tags. I can't promise that I won't resort to a little ranting, but I'll be more mindful of readers' time.

 

[PeterDonis]

maybe I'll use < rant > tags

You could use the "spoiler" tag to hide it so people would only read it if they chose to.

 

[Tom.G]

Hey DaveC426913, hang in there. I have managed to keep clear of Apple products for decades, for precisely the troubles you are having. The Apple Way: it Will be done the way We want it; efficency, customizing and documentation be d*mnd!

I actually find this thread somewhat entertaining, unfortunately it comes at your expense.

I commend you for your perseverance and professionialism in following thru on your project!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[pbuk]

I ... wonder why in tarnation Apple products have any kind of reputation for usability.

They did one thing right almost exactly 23 years ago. Everything else is BS.

 

[Algr]

The Apple Way: it Will be done the way We want it; efficency, customizing and documentation be d*mnd!

I've never understood why Windows users say this. In this thread alone we have discussed four different ways to switch from one app to another. I don't used tabbed browsing or minimize windows because I prefer other ways to do those things. I think you just don't know the Mac as well as Windows, and so assume that there is nothing left to know.