Help understanding minkowski tensor and indices

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the transformation properties of covariant tensors and the Minkowski metric tensor under Lorentz boosts in special relativity. Participants explore the implications of index notation, matrix representations, and the conventions used in tensor calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a transformation rule for a covariant two-tensor under a Lorentz boost, questioning whether it is written explicitly and how to interpret the order of matrix multiplication from the indices.
  • Another participant discusses the generality of index notation compared to matrix notation, suggesting that matrix forms require adjacent summed indices and provides a method to rewrite the transformation in matrix form.
  • There is a suggestion to focus on tensor notation rather than matrix notation, with an emphasis on expanding shorthand tensor notation into full equations for clarity.
  • Participants note the variability in the representation of the Minkowski metric, questioning the reasons behind different conventions (e.g., -1,1,1,1 versus 1,-1,-1,-1).
  • One participant provides a detailed explanation of how covariant components transform, emphasizing the importance of maintaining proper index placement and the relationship between covariant and contravariant components under Lorentz transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to understanding tensor transformations, with some advocating for matrix notation and others for direct tensor notation. There is no consensus on the conventions used for the Minkowski metric or the implications of index placement.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential confusion arising from different conventions in textbooks and the need for clarity in index notation. There are unresolved questions regarding the relationship between raising/lowering indices and the inverse of Lorentz transformations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in special relativity, tensor calculus, and the mathematical foundations of physics, particularly those grappling with the transformation properties of tensors and metrics.

decerto
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So I have just been introduced to indices, four vectors and tensors in SR and I'm having trouble knowing exactly what I am being asked in some questions.

So the first question asks to write explicitly how a covariant two tensor transforms under a lorentz boost.

Now I know that it transforms like A'_{\mu \nu}=(L^{-1})_{\mu}\ ^{\kappa}(L^{-1})_{\nu}\ ^{\lambda}A_{\kappa \lambda}
where L is the matrix with L_{00/11}=\gamma and L_{12/21}=-\gamma \beta

Is this written explicitly or do I need to write it out in matrix form and if so what is the order of the matrix multiplication, how do I interpret from the indices what the order is?

The next questions asks to show that the covariant form of the minkowski metric tensor is invariant under this lorentz boost. What I have so far is \eta'_{\mu \nu}=(L^{-1})_{\mu}\ ^{\kappa}(L^{-1})_{\nu}\ ^{\lambda}\eta_{\kappa \lambda}

\eta'_{\mu \nu}=(L^{-1})_{\mu}\ ^{\kappa}(L^{-1})_{\nu \kappa}

I'm not really sure how to proceed from there, I'm pretty sure there is some relationship between raising/lowering indices and the inverse of lorentz transformation I'm not aware of.

Also I've seen the minkowski metric written both -1,1,1,1 and 1,-1,-1,-1 on various pdfs/notes online why is this?

And finally is there a link to some proof that the L I described acts on contravariant components and not covariant, i.e somethat shows the basis vectors of minkowski space transform by L^-1?
 
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I can't provide an answer to a homework question directly, but I can help with this general question you raised:

decerto said:
what is the order of the matrix multiplication, how do I interpret from the indices what the order is?
Index notation is more general than matrix notation, so some expressions can be written in matrix form and other cannot. Generally, writing an index expression as a matrix requires that summed indices be adjacent.

(L-1)μκ (L-1)νλ Aκλ rewrite as (L-1)μκ Aκλ (L-1)νλ

Now the κ's are adjacent, but the λ's are not. To get them adjacent, use a transpose: Vαβ = (Vβα)T. So

(L-1)μκ Aκλ (L-1)νλ rewrite as (L-1)μκ Aκλ (L-1)Tλν

and the matrix form of the expression becomes L-1 A (L-1)T.
 
Can you give any indirect advice for the homework question or should I post it to the homework section of the site?
 
I would suggest forgetting about matrix notion and trying to grasp directly with the tensor notation. You know about the Einstein convetion, that repeated indices are summed over, I assume?

It may be painful, but if you have to , expand the shorthand tensor notation into the full sum, i.e.


##\left(x'\right)^a = \Lambda^{a}{}_{b} x^b ## in shorthand tensor notation is equivalent to the follow set of four equations written fully out:

##\left(x'\right)^0 = \Lambda^{0}{}_{0} x^0 + \Lambda^{0}{}_{1} x^1 + \Lambda^{0}{}_{2} x^2 + \Lambda^{0}{}_{3} x^3 ##

##\left(x'\right)^1 = \Lambda^{1}{}_{0} x^0 + \Lambda^{1}{}_{1} x^1 + \Lambda^{1}{}_{2} x^2 + \Lambda^{1}{}_{3} x^3 ##

##\left(x'\right)^2 = \Lambda^{2}{}_{0} x^0 + \Lambda^{2}{}_{1} x^1 + \Lambda^{2}{}_{2} x^2 + \Lambda^{2}{}_{3} x^3 ##

##\left(x'\right)^3 = \Lambda^{3}{}_{0} x^0 + \Lambda^{3}{}_{1} x^1 + \Lambda^{3}{}_{2} x^2 + \Lambda^{3}{}_{3} x^3 ##

I've written the transformation matrix with indices as shown (northwest to southeast) because that's what my textbook (MTW) prescribes. I noticed yours was opposite, and it looks funny to me but I can't be positive that MTW"s conventions are universal.
 
decerto said:
Can you give any indirect advice for the homework question or should I post it to the homework section of the site?

If it's an undergraduate course, it should be posted to the homework sections. Homework in graduate courses may be posted to the forums.
 
pervect said:
I've written the transformation matrix with indices as shown (northwest to southeast) because that's what my textbook (MTW) prescribes. I noticed yours was opposite, and it looks funny to me but I can't be positive that MTW"s conventions are universal.

You are right. It's very important not to write the indices on top of each other. By definition the contravariant components transform as you've written
x'^a={\Lambda^a}_b x^b.
Now let's see, how the covariant components transform
x'_a=\eta_{ab} x'^b=\eta_{ab} {\Lambda^{b}}_{c} x^c = \eta_{ab} {\Lambda^{b}}_{c} \eta^{cd} x_d.
Usually one defines
\eta_{ab} {\Lambda^{b}}_{c} \eta^{cd}={\Lambda_a}^{d}.
Then you have
x'_a={\Lambda_a}^b x_b.
Now let's check that this is indeed correct, i.e., that the covariant components indeed transform contragrediently to the contravariant ones as it must be.

To that end we have to use the fact that we deal with Lorentz transformations, i.e., pseudo-orthogonal transformations wrt. the fundamental form \eta_{ab}. That means that
\eta_{ab} {\Lambda^a}_c {\Lambda^{b}}_d=\eta_{cd}.
Contracting with the inverse transformation, we get
\eta_{ab} {\Lambda^a}_c = \eta_{cd} {(\Lambda^{-1})^{d}}_{b}.
Contracting with the fundamental form we find
\eta_{ab} \eta^{cd} {\Lambda^a}_c={\Lambda_b}^{d}={(\Lambda^{-1})^d}_b.
QED.

So it's
x_a'={\Lambda_{a}}^b x_b={(\Lambda^{-1})^b}_a x_b.

This should also the OP's question (correcting the assumption in the very beginning!).
 

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