Help with Calorimetry: Calculate ΔH, ΔU

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the changes in enthalpy (ΔH) and internal energy (ΔU) for the combustion of naphthalene in a bomb calorimeter. Participants explore the implications of temperature changes, gas volume changes, and the phase of water produced during the reaction, engaging in both theoretical and practical aspects of calorimetry.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculated ΔU as -4904 kJ/mol and ΔH as -4909 kJ/mol, questioning how to account for the second term in the ΔH equation.
  • Another participant suggested calculating the initial and final PV for O2 and the resulting products, noting that the change in pressure-volume when forming CO2 and H2O could affect the ΔH calculation.
  • Some participants proposed that the water produced is likely in the liquid phase at the final temperature of 33°C, while others argued it could be in vapor form, depending on the specifics of the calorimeter setup.
  • Multiple calculations for Δ(PV) were presented, with one participant arriving at +5882 J/mol, leading to a ΔH of -4898 kJ/mol, while another noted the neglect of sensible heat increase of the products.
  • There was a discussion about the need for more specific details in the problem statement regarding the volume of gas in the calorimeter and the initialization of combustion.
  • Some participants discussed the need to account for the heat removal required to cool the products back to the initial temperature, estimating additional energy changes in the range of 3-4 kJ.
  • Disagreements arose regarding the appropriate heat capacities to use for CO2 and water, with some participants correcting earlier assumptions about the values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants expressed differing views on the phase of water produced and the assumptions regarding heat capacities. There is no consensus on the final values for ΔH and ΔU, as calculations and assumptions vary among participants.

Contextual Notes

Participants noted limitations in the problem statement, including assumptions about the phase of water and the specifics of the calorimeter's gas volume. The discussion also highlighted the need for clarity on the combustion process and the heat removal required for cooling the products.

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Homework Statement


Mothballs are composed primarily of the hydrocarbon naphthalene (C10H8). When 1.070 g of naphthalene burns in a bomb calorimeter, the temperature rises from 24.464 ∘C to 32.473 ∘C.

determine delta H and delta U given the heat capacity of the calorimeter is 5.112 kJ/mol

Homework Equations


\Delta H = \Delta U + \Delta n_{gas} RT

The Attempt at a Solution


i calculated delta U just fine and got -4904 kJ/mol

I know the answer for delta H is - 4909 kJ/mol

how do i calculate the the second term in the equation up there? from the combustion reaction i foudnm that delta n is -2. R is 8.314. But since T is not constant, how do i accoutnm for that? Do i average it?

thanks for your help
 
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I think you need to compute the initial ## PV=n R T ## for the ## O_2 ## molecules at the initial temperature, and the final ## PV=n R T ## for the resulting components at the final temperature, and subtract the first from the second. When the ## O_2 ## combines with the carbon to make ## CO_2 ## there is no change in the pressure-volume, while when it combines with the ## H ## to make ## H_2 O ##, (presumably in the vapor form) the pressure-volume gets doubled, as you get two ## H_2 O ## molecules for each ## O_2 ##. Perhaps @Chestermiller could help answer this to see if he agrees. ## \\ ## Editing... Since the ## \Delta PV ## to get the ## \Delta H ## from the ## \Delta U ## appears to be ## -5 \,kJ/mole ##, does that mean that the water that forms is in the liquid phase? 1 mole of ## C_{10} H_8 ## corresponds to 2 moles of ## O_2 ## needed to make 4 moles of ## H_2 O ##.(Initial PV of ## O_2 ## that gets converted to liquid ## H_2 O ## ): 2(8.314)(297)=5000 joules that apparently goes into liquid form. That would explain the -5 kJ/mole in the difference between ## \Delta U ## and ## \Delta H ##. ## \\ ## Meanwhile, the change that occurs in the PV as ## O_2 ## goes from ## O_2 ## at the initial temperature to the same number of moles of ## CO_2 ## at the final temperature is most likely insignificant: 10 moles of ## O_2 ## and/or ## CO_2 ## and ## \Delta T=8 ## degrees. ## \Delta (PV)=10(8.314)8=665 \, joules ##. (Less than 1 kJ). It could make the -5 kJ into a -4kJ . Otherwise insignificant.
 
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I get -4904 kJ/mole for ##\Delta U##

For ##\Delta (PV)##, I get ((14)(273.2+32.473)-(12)(273.2+24.464))(8.314)=+5882 J/mole = 5.8 kJ/mole

So, I get ##\Delta H = -4904 + 6 = -4898\ kJ/mole##

This neglects the sensible heat increase of the products.
 
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Chestermiller said:
I get -4904 kJ/mole for ##\Delta U##

For ##\Delta (PV)##, I get ((14)(273.2+32.473)-(12)(273.2+24.464))(8.314)=+5882 J/mole = 5.8 kJ/mole

So, I get ##\Delta H = -4904 + 6 = -4898\ kJ/mole##

This neglects the sensible heat increase of the products.
This seems to be more logical (with the ## H_2 O ## going to the vapor phase upon combustion) than going to the liquid phase, which is apparently what the answer that the OP gives as the "correct" answer must be assuming. Thank you @Chestermiller .
 
If the final temp is 33°C most of the water will be probably liquid.
 
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Borek said:
If the final temp is 33°C most of the water will be probably liquid.
In this sense, I think the problem statement really needs to be more specific. It does leave us guessing a little, and says nothing about the volume of gas that the calorimeter holds=if the volume is small, then certainly, a good deal of condensation would result. It also doesn't go into detail about how the combustion is initialized, but that is most likely beyond the scope of the exercise.
 
In a typical bomb calorimeter sample is ignited electrically and the amount of heat from ignition is known and subtracted (no data for that here). To make things easier we add few drops of water to the sample before ignition to make sure head space was already saturated with vapor. Then we can assume all produced water was liquid (and ignore the change in amount of vapor water, head space is rather small).
 
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Oh. I meant to do it for the water being liquid in the end! Sorry. In that case, the number of moles decreases by 2, rather than increases by two. So it would be about 5 kJ less, rather than 5 kJ more. Thanks guys.
 
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If we really did want to get the molar changes in enthalpy and internal energy for the reaction at the initial temperature and at constant volume, we would have to take into account the additional heat that would have to be removed to cool the 4 moles of liquid water and 10 moles of carbon dioxide back down to the initial temperature (at constant volume). Anyone want to take a shot at it? Just roughing it out in my head, I get a number of about 3-4 kJ.
 
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  • #10
Chestermiller said:
If we really did want to get the molar changes in enthalpy and internal energy for the reaction at the initial temperature and at constant volume, we would have to take into account the additional heat that would have to be removed to cool the 4 moles of liquid water and 10 moles of carbon dioxide back down to the initial temperature (at constant volume). Anyone want to take a shot at it? Just roughing it out in my head, I get a number of about 3-4 kJ.
## \Delta U=n C_v \Delta T ## for the ## CO_2 ##, where ## C_v=(3/2)R ##. This gives ## \Delta U=(10)(3/2)(8.314)(-8) \, joules ## for the ## CO_2 ## portion, and an additional ## \Delta U=4(18)(4.184)(-8) joules ## for the liquid water. (## C_v ## for water is 1 cal/gram which is 4.184 joules/gram which is 4.184(18) joules/mole). Some quick arithmetic gives me -996-2400=-3400 joules, very nearly what @Chestermiller estimated. :)
 
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  • #11
Charles Link said:
## \Delta U=n C_v \Delta T ## for the ## CO_2 ##, where ## C_v=(3/2)R ##. This gives ## \Delta U=(10)(3/2)(8.314)(-8) \, joules ## for the ## CO_2 ## portion, and an additional ## \Delta U=4(18)(4.184)(-8) joules ## for the liquid water. (## C_v ## for water is 1 cal/gram which is 4.184 joules/gram which is 4.184(18) joules/mole). Some quick arithmetic gives me -996-2400=-3400 joules, very nearly what @Chestermiller estimated. :)
I think 1.5 R is pretty low for CO2. But we're certainly in the right ballpark.
 
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  • #12
Chestermiller said:
I think 1.5 R is pretty low for CO2. But we're certainly in the right ballpark.
My mistake. For a diatomic gas, ## C_v= (5/2)R ## and for a more complex molecule, it would be even higher. (I had originally thought of this, but mistakenly thought it didn't apply for ## C_v ##. )
 
  • #13
Charles Link said:
My mistake. For a diatomic gas, ## C_v= (5/2)R ## and for a more complex molecule, it would be even higher. (I had originally thought of this, but mistakenly thought it didn't apply for ## C_v ##. )
I looked up co2, and it was about 3.6R
 
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