Help with limits and a derivative

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The discussion revolves around understanding limits and differentiability at a specific point in a mathematical function. The initial confusion about the function's definition at x=1 is clarified, leading to a focus on checking continuity and differentiability. The participants explore various forms of the limit definition and the challenges posed by a sine term within the limit. Ultimately, one participant successfully resolves the problem after thorough discussion and guidance, highlighting the importance of understanding the behavior of functions near critical points. The conversation emphasizes the complexities of limits and the necessity of rigorous definitions in calculus.
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Homework Statement
##f(x) =

\begin{cases}

(x-1)(1+sin(\frac{1}{x^2-1})) & \quad \text{if } x \text{ is not equal to 1}\\

0 & \quad \text{if } x \text{ is equal to 1}

\end{cases}##

Is the function continuous and differentiable in x=1? Use the definition of the derivative.
Relevant Equations
The defintion of the derivative
I don't understand my textbook, so I simply don't understand how to solve this math problem. I really appreciate some help!
 
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Are you sure the definition of the function isn't split at point ##x=1## instead of ##x=0##?
 
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fresh_42 said:
Are you sure the definition of the function isn't split at point ##x=1## instead of ##x=0##?
Of course, my mistake! I will fix it now!
 
I would check continuity first, since if it wasn't then it's also not differentiable. However, the problem asks you to use the limit of the derivative. So start at this point: what does differentiability at ##x=1## mean, i.e. which formalism of differentiability do you use?
 
fresh_42 said:
So start at this point: what does differentiability at x=1x=1x=1 mean, i.e. which formalism of differentiability do you use?

By formalism do you mean definition? I use ##\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h} ##
 
Yes. You can write it as ##\lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{f(x_0+h)-f(x_0)}{h}## or as ##\lim_{x \to x_0} \dfrac{f(x)-f(x_0)}{x-x_0}## or with Weierstrass as ##f(x_0 + h) = f(x_0) + J(h) + r(h)##. In the first version we get
$$
\lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{(x+h-1)(1+\sin(\frac{1}{(x+h)^2-1}))-(x-1)(1+\sin(\frac{1}{x^2-1}))}{h}
$$
So the difficulty is to manage the sine term. As it is bounded between ##\pm 1##, taking the absolute value of the expression could work.

Do you have an idea which way it turns out?
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes. You can write it as ##\lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{f(x_0+h)-f(x_0)}{h}## or as ##\lim_{x \to x_0} \dfrac{f(x)-f(x_0)}{x-x_0}## or with Weierstrass as ##f(x_0 + h) = f(x_0) + J(h) + r(h)##. In the first version we get
$$
\lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{(x+h-1)(1+\sin(\frac{1}{(x+h)^2-1}))-(x-1)(1+\sin(\frac{1}{x^2-1}))}{h}
$$
So the difficulty is to manage the sine term. As it is bounded between ##\pm 1##, taking the absolute value of the expression could work.

Do you have an idea which way it turns out?
I've tried the last thing you wrote me , but I struggle to get around the sin-function. I know that it is bounded but I don't know how to use it. And no, I don't have an idea which way it turns out. Thanks for helping my by the way, I really struggle with this. I'm a slow learner too, so it takes some time for me to fully understand.
 
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My guess is that it is continuous at ##x=1## due to the decreasing amplitude, but not differentiable, so we have to show that the limit doesn't exist. The heuristic is
\begin{align*}
F(h) &:= \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{ (x+h-1) (1+\sin ( \frac{1}{(x+h)^2-1} ) ) - (x-1) (1+\sin ( \frac{1}{x^2-1} ) ) }{h} \\
&= \lim_{h \to 0} \left\{\left( \dfrac{x}{h}-\dfrac{1}{h}+1 \right)(1+sws)- \left( \dfrac{x}{h}-\dfrac{1}{h} \right)(1+sws')\right\} \\
&= \lim_{h \to 0} (1+sws'')
\end{align*}
where ##sws## means something that shivers, i.e. we have terms which oscillate between ##\pm 1##, so the limit cannot be fixed. Now how do we make this rigorous? The limit definition is:

##F(h) \stackrel{h \to 0}{\longrightarrow} L## iff for any ##\varepsilon>0## there is a ##\delta > 0 ## such that
$$
0< |h|< \delta \;\Longrightarrow\; |F(h)-L|< \varepsilon
$$
Unfortunately we cannot use ##L=1## which is what we would do in case of continuity, but here we have the entire quotient as function in ##h## and no idea what the limit would be. Hence we have to assume any fixed number ##L##.

Can you negate the statement such that it becomes a definition of a non existing limit?
 
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Do you think it would be ok to differentiate ##f(x)## at a point ##x\neq 1## and considering the derivative then, instead of from the start?
 
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I think its better to apply the definition ##\lim_{x \to 1}\frac{f(x)-f(1)}{x-1}=\frac{(x-1)(1+\sin(\frac{1}{x^2-1}))-0}{x-1}## since we are given that ##f(1)=0##, and then all we are left with is the limit $$\lim_{x \to 1}\sin\frac{1}{x^2-1}$$ which doesn't exist ( I mean its a well known result that the limit of a periodic function does not exist at infinity).
 
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  • #11
fresh_42 said:
Do you think it would be ok to differentiate ##f(x)## at a point ##x\neq 1## and considering the derivative then, instead of from the start?
I got it now, it took some time but I finally solved it! Thank you!
 
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