Hey guys I have an interesting topic for all of you who interested

[sanman]

Alright, but then you're saying that there are no implications or consequences arising from Non-Locality. Because if that remote locale can never affect you directly due to "No Communication Theorem" then the non-locality might as well not exist.

But what further experiments could one devise to usefully probe the nature of the mechanism underlying entanglement?

If Alice and Bob each were to take a Kerr Rotation measurement of each of their particles immediately prior to subjecting each particle to the Bell's Inequality measurement experiment, then would the correlation violation still appear once they had a chance to later compare data?

Because the definition of Kerr Rotation is that it would not alter the state of a particle being measured (even if it is destroying the entanglement).

 

[drphysica]

Alright, but then you're saying that there are no implications or consequences arising from Non-Locality. Because if that remote locale can never affect you directly due to "No Communication Theorem" then the non-locality might as well not exist.

No that is not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that the quantum mechanics is a theory which exhibit that it is not possible to treat widely separated systems as independent, and that occurs due to non-locality. So you see the no-communication theory and relativity holds. Otherwise fundamental laws of physics will be violated. That is why I love QM! :-)

 

[disregardthat]

Does anyone have an easy explanation or a link to an easy explanation of imaginary numbers? I don't get what you are discussing here.

 

[sanman]

But then what are the implications and consequences arising from Non-Locality?
We can see Non-Locality after the fact, after Bob and Alice have later gotten a chance to compare data by classical means).

What does it mean to have Non-Locality that is only accessible via classical channels? Depending upon classical channels of communication then once again forces Locality.

If there is interdependence of widely separated systems, then that interdependence must be occurring through some mechanism. It is this mechanism which must be found, if QM and GR are to be reconciled.

 

[drphysica]

If there is interdependence of widely separated systems, then that interdependence must be occurring through some mechanism. It is this mechanism which must be found, if QM and GR are to be reconciled.

That is what I thought when I psoted this thread on assumption that quanum channeling experiment suggested that info. could travel FTL but now it is clear tha there is no underlying mechanism it is what it is a quantum mechanics showing us deeper sides of reality. I used the analogy of the waves on a beach to describe it in one of my forums.

 

[sanman]

I know, DrPhysica, but the wave that strikes you and me on the beach is not caused by us, and we are just caught in its splash. Are you saying that the Bell's Inequality experiment is not being conducted by Alice and Bob, and that they are merely caught in some bigger event not initiated by them? Again, this sounds like "pre-destination", "pre-determinacy", or "karma" -- like we are all in the Matrix.

This is a denial of causality, free will, and self-determination. There needs to be some mechanism out there to support quantum behavior -- one that we at least have a fighting chance of affecting/influencing/manipulating. Because otherwise we are just like helpless puppets dangling from strings, without any capacity for choice.

With a real wave from the real ocean, then we know how the water molecules are able to hit each other, and to then propagate the wavefront at each point concentrically.

So how is this done across spacetime?

 

[drphysica]

I don't know about "pre-destination" or "pre-determinacy" but the word "karma" is a Sanskrit word meaning "deed or act;" more broadly describing the principle of cause and effect. And the whole idea of matrix theory is actually a derivative of string theory, which suggested that we actually leave on a brane of higher dimensional space (go figure). The evolved string theory was named M-theory by Ed Witten, which actually stands for matrix surprisingly as it may sounds. Anyways I don't know about any of this but what I know is that quantum mechanics is working on very fundamental level and the theory was never wrong. May be QM trying to show us more than we wiling to accept. You could ask your self a question like could I exit outside the physical universe and QM shows that you cannot since you are the universe. And you could ask your self, if so how come we are not effected by some events happening on the other side of the universe, well may be we are (and I mean may be) we just don’t know about it since this information is restricted to us by an event space (light cone). Like theoretically if sun disappears from the centre of our solar system the Earth gets effected by the gravity waves after nine minutes but we don’t know what quantum effects it might have on our experiments conducted at that time. But this is philosophy not physics. :D

 

[sanman]

Alright, but when you talk about a wave coming from the ocean and hitting each of us at the same time, we both still know that this "wave" is really a collection of objects. The wave is composed of many water molecules. The wave then is not really a true object, but a collection of many objects.

Also importantly, the wave is traveling in a fluid medium, and really that medium is the object (or its constituent molecules are), and the wave isn't an object but is rather a distribution of those objects (to me this implies that the wave is information).

Physicists insist that there is no medium for EM waves to propagate through, but I really find this to be suspicious and wrong. Perhaps they are just too limited in what they are willing to consider as a medium. Let me start a new thread, about the Michelson-Morley experiment.

 

[drphysica]

Yes I know what you trying to say here. You suggesting that there is always underlying mechanism on more fundamental level, but wouldn't you agree that there got to be the end or the most fundamental level where there is no more. I don't want to change the subject but let's consider the zero point energy it is most fundamental energy which any quantum mechanical system may posses (ground state energy) it is also known as vacuum energy. Zero point energy is the lowest possible energy that system can have, so it is fundamental and there is no less fundamental, do you know what I'm trying to say? Ah yes I was just thinking about Michelson-Morley experiment thanks for brining that up. :) This experiment also implies that there is no more fundamental medium then vacuum, they thought that there was such substance they called ether but there is not (this experiment shows it). So the most fundamental is vacuum or fabric of space-time. If we go any deeper I would probably go with string theory coz it suggest that the whole fabric of space-time is 11 dimensional but that yet to be proved. :)

 

[sanman]

DrPhysica, then please see the thread I have just started on why I feel Michelson-Morley may not have been as comprehensively conclusive as everyone thinks.

 

[tehno]

The last I have heard of Nimz experiment ,is that the experimeter himself holds he indeed transferred part of Mozart simphony via FTL signal..
IIRC,apparently he suggested that he "excited tachyonic field" or some rubbish like that.
Poor sucker...

 

[jtbell]

Does anyone have an easy explanation or a link to an easy explanation of imaginary numbers?

If you want to learn about imaginary numbers you should probably ask in the General Math forum:

https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73