How a Lagrangian can represent a theory?

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    Lagrangian Theory
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of how a Lagrangian can represent a physical theory, particularly in the context of the Standard Model and quantum field theory. Participants explore the relationship between Lagrangians, symmetries, and equations of motion, as well as the implications for particle behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that a Lagrangian is determined by the symmetries and the order of equations of motion desired, suggesting this could be interpreted as "representing" the theory.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the concept of motion's symmetries and how they relate to the Lagrangian.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that the Lagrangian is integral to the path integral formulation of quantum field theory, indicating a direct relationship between terms in the Lagrangian and particle behavior, as represented by Feynman diagrams.
  • It is mentioned that certain symmetries, such as relativistic invariance and gauge symmetry, are embedded within the structure of the Lagrangian through specific mathematical formulations.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for substantial mathematical background to fully engage with the topic, referencing their own extensive coursework in related areas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the representation of theories by Lagrangians, with some seeking clarification and others providing insights. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of this representation and the implications of symmetries.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the definitions of symmetries and Lagrangians, as well as the complexity of the mathematical background required to fully grasp the concepts discussed.

hugo_faurand
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Hello everyone !

I recently read an article about Standard Model's Lagrangian. And it made me remember another article (that I read a long time ago) which said that a theory's Lagrangian "represent" the theory.

But How ?

Maybe I didn't get the sense of "represent".
Also I know that there is something called the Lagrangian density so maybe it refers to this.Thanks in advance.

Regards
 
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The lagrangian is determined by the symmetries and the order of equations of motion you want. You could call this "representing".
 
haushofer said:
The lagrangian is determined by the symmetries and the order of equations of motion you want. You could call this "representing".
Could you develop what is equatuond of motion's symmetries ?
 
The Lagrangian is used in the path integral formulation of quantum field theory. Basically, there is a direct relation between terms in the Lagrangian and particle behavior. Google up Feynman diagrams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman_diagramhttps://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman_diagram
Each term in the Lagrangian corresponds to something represented by a Feynman diagram, which represents something happening in the particle theory. Some of the symmetries are represented explicitly. Relativistic in-variance is built in by using the mu-nu 4-derivatives, and building things up out of fields that are relativistic vectors, tensors, etc. Gauge symmetry is built up from the symmetries of the gauge field, usually called A-sub-mu or some such.

To get into this more you will need a lot of math. You could start with learning the Hamiltonian-Lagrange formulation of classical mechanics. The intro to that was a 4 month course for me. After that you could step over to the Hamiltonian-Lagrange formulation of quantum mechanics, then of quantum field theory. That was another two 4-month classes for me.
 

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