How Can a Late-Life Transformation Challenge Our Understanding of Friendship?

[wolram]

A guy i have known since high school turns out to be gay, so what's weird about that?
he has been married and had two children and had a divorce, i thought it was strange that he seemed better off, usually child support and maintaing another home makes a guy poorer, but he showed signs of being better off, driving a new car and looking better dressed , he is in his 50s and i can not fathom this, we are still good friends, how does a guy change this late in life?

 

[Kurdt]

The social structure of Britain was a lot different when you were growing up wolram. Homosexuality had only been recently decriminalised and it was still quite tabboo for many people. Perhaps he felt better off hiding his true inclinations for fear of negative reactions from those people. Since society has moved on and homosexuality is a notion that people have gotten used to and comfortable with, he may have redicovered his true self. He may have hung on longer for the kids.

We do live in unique times of huge social transformations.

 

[Evo]

My former boss came out of the closet after years of marriage and three kids. He only got married and had kids because it would have prevented him form having a career back when he was starting out. Once he was established, the "taboo" was lifted and was actually quite common to be gay at my company which was one of the largest in the US and globally. It was like one day all the men there came out of the closet. Every guy I worked with was gay. I was the odd one, being female and straight.

 

[wolram]

It still strikes me as being weird, it is like a life long vegan suddenly turning into a meat eater, i guess it does not happen overnight, almost as if a switch has been thrown, there must be a transformation period, a period when people notice the change.

 

[Huckleberry]

Life is pretty weird.

Why not ask him about it?

I had a friend for 3 years when I was in the navy. I discovered he was bisexual about a year after I got out. Another friend had told me that he was living in North Carolina with another man and his daughter. I stopped by to visit once and spent the weekend. They seemed like a very normal, somewhat boring family. It didn't seem nearly as strange as I had thought it to be.

He had always been bisexual, but had reasons to conceal that from people. The act of sex isn't always done out of love. People that refrain from certain social behaviours receive a stigma. He would have lost his friends and been picked on in school if he had revealed his sexuality then. In the navy it isn't acceptable to reveal such things. It wasn't until he was out of the navy, and didn't have his schoolmates around, and had met another man that he was interested in, that he felt any desire to reveal himself.

 

[wolram]

I should ask him about it, but i not comfortable, i know it is wrong and he is still a good friend, but i find myself tightening my belt when we meet, like i said life is weird even if i am the weird part of it.

 

[Kurdt]

I should ask him about it, but i not comfortable, i know it is wrong and he is still a good friend, but i find myself tightening my belt when we meet, like i said life is weird even if i am the weird part of it.

I find this strange because more often than not when people appear interested in others for whatever reason, one tends to get a positive response.

 

[wolram]

I find this strange because more often than not when people appear interested in others for whatever reason, one tends to get a positive response.

I think you are so wrong, my memories of this guy , as a guy type guy, are like when we went out scrumping together, or jumping out of a hay loft onto the bales below, or doing some slightly illegal things together, guy type things, it has rocked my boat to find out that he is gay, that is not a big problem on my part, i mean how can you wash out years of friendship, but that does not mean that i can feel as easy with him as i used to be.

 

[Moonbear]

but that does not mean that i can feel as easy with him as i used to be.

Why not? He's still the same person. He probably just married and had kids because that's "what you're supposed to do," and at the time there was too much stigma to admitting to being gay that it was just easier to pretend to be something he wasn't. It's also possible he's actually bisexual, so really did have feelings for his wife too, but otherwise more likely they just had a good friendship or lived more like roommates, without any real physical attraction. Now that society is more accepting, he can stop pretending to be something he's not, and indeed, that's probably why he's been so much happier since getting divorced, that he no longer needs to live a lie.

 

[wolram]

How can one live a lie for so many years? do not get me wrong i will stand by my old mate whatever, but that does not mean i understand his transformation and feel comfortable about it.

 

[turbo]

How can one live a lie for so many years? do not get me wrong i will stand by my old mate whatever, but that does not mean i understand his transformation and feel comfortable about it.

He may still want to jump out of hay lofts with you. He may still be the best person to watch your back if you get pissed at the local. Grow up.

 

[wolram]

He may still want to jump out of hay lofts with you. He may still be the best person to watch your back if you get pissed at the local. Grow up.

Hey Turbo, why should i have to grow up, it is enough that i can at least have some understanding and tollerance for others, why should anyone have their world view explode
and understand it.

 

[turbo]

Hey Turbo, why should i have to grow up, it is enough that i can at least have some understanding and tollerance for others, why should anyone have their world view explode
and understand it.

Your friend may be the best person to watch your back, and he may be the best person to hook you up with a lover. Just a suggestion.

 

[hypatia]

How can one live a lie for so many years? do not get me wrong i will stand by my old mate whatever, but that does not mean i understand his transformation and feel comfortable about it.

He may of loved his wife very much, for many years. He may love her still. I am sure he loves his children very much. Does there come a time in ones life, when you understand your own feelings{for others} may be hurting the people you love the most?
Its really not odd that he sports a new car and cloths, and he may of gotten into quite a lot of debt doing so. Post-divorced people often do this.
With good friends, we really do not need to understand the why's and if's. The older we get, the less importaint it all is. I love my old friends because we share so many memories, and can laugh over a good glass of beer. Time is such a precious thing, and old friends pass to quickly.

 

[baywax]

The responsibilities that come with parenting sometimes demand that you live a lie. I mean, just because you don't like changing diapers or sitting with a sleeping infant all day does not mean you are not going to do it... is this not living a lie?? When you couple in the love and the caring you feel for this infant... yet want to be out screwing all your gay buddies... this compounds the lie.
It is often in the best interest of infants, toddlers and tweens if both the husband and wife are present in their lives as support and guidance. This is extra important in that it provides support for each of the spouses and renders them better able to deal with the challenges of raising a child. This includes better rest, better use of time and sharing the duties of a household... without detracting from the learning and growth of the child since the duties are shared.

Beyond a certain age there is a better chance to leave the children with one of the spouses without causing too much harm to the support network. The children are better suited to take care of certain matters on their own at a later age. This provides one spouse the possibility of leaving the family and shedding the "lie" they thought they were living.

 

[arildno]

You shouldn't forget that for earlier generations, a lot of self-deception among gays was also prevalent:

You would certainly notice that your frienship bonds with men could be a lot stronger emotionally than relationships with women, but that you didn't consciously raise/identify that enthusiasm for a particular guy into a specifically sexual attraction (which was a psychological non-option).

Once a particular guy struck you so hard emotionally that it was impossible to deny that your fondness for him was strongly sexual laden, the mental floodgates burst open, and your earlier friendships are recognized for what they actually were.

 

[mgb_phys]

A friend of mine got caught using a mac in a coffee shop. It was a shock to all of us.
I mean he had happily had windows machines for years and even used linux - there was no sign. I mean he had never worn black turtle necks or shown any inclination toward expensive thin shiny things before.
I can accept that people are different and some people will naturally be drawn to using emacs because the way their brain is wired - but a mac !

 

[baywax]

I'm not pointing fingers with the idea of deception. Its more like a form of self-control when a parent weighs the value of raising their offspring in a manner that the child might also live a life well and choose a sexual preference... as opposed to the parent dumping their children in pursuit of sexual freedom and all those... dramatic, yet impractical goals.

 

[wolram]

Seems like i have little knowledge of these things, and is a common occurrence, i guess living in a small village and working in a small town one just does not get the total picture.

 

[arildno]

Seems like i have little knowledge of these things, and is a common occurrence, i guess living in a small village and working in a small town one just does not get the total picture.

Most likely, your friend won't be offended if you express your puzzlement to him.

Instead, it is more probable that he will be pleasantly surprised if you show what genuinely find strange about his public "change", rather than forcibly keeping your puzzlement a non-issue.

 

[turbo]

Most likely, your friend won't be offended if you express your puzzlement to him.

Instead, it is more probable that he will be pleasantly surprised if you show what genuinely find strange about his public "change", rather than forcibly keeping your puzzlement a non-issue.

I have an openly gay cousin and a gay nephew, and they would rather discuss their lives openly with friends and relatives curious enough to ask than adopt the don't ask-don't tell approach. Interestingly, both were brought up in homes in which their mothers ran the show, and both mothers converted to relatively conservative Christian faiths.

 

[rewebster]

A friend of mine got caught using a mac in a coffee shop. It was a shock to all of us.
I mean he had happily had windows machines for years and even used linux - there was no sign. I mean he had never worn black turtle necks or shown any inclination toward expensive thin shiny things before.
I can accept that people are different and some people will naturally be drawn to using emacs because the way their brain is wired - but a mac !

I've heard there are help groups for that sort of thing

 

[arildno]

I have an openly gay cousin and a gay nephew, and they would rather discuss their lives openly with friends and relatives curious enough to ask than adopt the don't ask-don't tell approach.

As would everyone in regarding some facet of their personality/life that they find emotionally important (whether rewarding or problematic) to them.

This ranges from innocuous hobby interests like stamp collecting or chess playing, to more intimate personal matters like defining experiences of childhood, political convictions, and those persons whom we love (for example one's own children).

We want to talk about things that matter to us, at least with that set of persons we trust.

 

[wolram]

Most likely, your friend won't be offended if you express your puzzlement to him.

Instead, it is more probable that he will be pleasantly surprised if you show what genuinely find strange about his public "change", rather than forcibly keeping your puzzlement a non-issue.

How the heck could one start such a conversation, maybe now i know it is sort of world wide and not a peculiarity, it is better not to.

 

[arildno]

How the heck could one start such a conversation, maybe now i know it is sort of world wide and not a peculiarity, it is better not to.

"Forgive me for asking, I hope you're not offended, but I sort of.."

 

[turbo]

You could say "Your partner seems like a very nice person. How did you meet?" If he wants to talk about his sexual orientation, and how his life-style changed, he'll do so. Complimenting a gay person about their partner is no different from complimenting a straight person on their choice of a mate. Just be honest and matter-of-fact about it.

 

[baywax]

How the heck could one start such a conversation, maybe now i know it is sort of world wide and not a peculiarity, it is better not to.

If you two are good friends you can basically talk about anything with him. The more up-front you are the more you'll be able to learn about his meteoric rise out of domesticity into the alleged stellar freedoms of sports cars and the wildlife! Its not weird in the least!

 

[vanesch]

My former boss came out of the closet after years of marriage and three kids. He only got married and had kids because it would have prevented him form having a career back when he was starting out. Once he was established, the "taboo" was lifted and was actually quite common to be gay at my company which was one of the largest in the US and globally. It was like one day all the men there came out of the closet. Every guy I worked with was gay. I was the odd one, being female and straight.

You could have suspected that, with all those guys in the closet, no ?

 

[Astronuc]

How can one live a lie for so many years? do not get me wrong i will stand by my old mate whatever, but that does not mean i understand his transformation and feel comfortable about it.

Societal/peer pressure, the pressure to conform, to be successful, to meet expectations of family, . . . .

One might ask, why do people behave the way they do? The answer is as varied as there are people.

I'm sure that one is adjusting to a new reality, and certainly when change comes abruptly the adjustment takes time.

My best friend from high school, who I've known for over 35 years, finally told me he was gay about 15 years ago. I had started to wonder because he never married, and he is one of nicest people one could ever meet, but he never talked about dating woman. At the time, he was worried I might reject him. No way! He is like a brother to me, and we still keep in contact. We had many good times to together in the past, and it's nice to get together when our schedules permit and reminisce.

Like hypatia mentioned "I love my old friends because we share so many memories . . ." It's nice to have friends who really 'know' one.

Time is such a precious thing, and old friends pass to quickly.

Don't waste a second, and unfortunately old friends are starting to pass.