How can magnetic dipole derivations be solved without using the force equation?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of magnetic dipole interactions in a magnetic field without relying on the force equation. Participants are exploring the mathematical and conceptual frameworks involved in this topic, specifically focusing on the relationships between magnetic dipoles and external magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using the Lorentz force law with infinitesimal current loops, questioning the complexity of the derivation for arbitrary shapes. There is mention of simplifying the problem by considering rectangular loops and relating torque to potential energy. Some participants also draw parallels between magnetic and electric dipoles.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing different approaches and insights. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of specific mathematical tools, such as Levi-Civita symbols, but there is no explicit consensus on a single method or solution path.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating constraints related to homework guidelines, such as avoiding certain assumptions or equations, specifically the force equation F=grad(m.B). There is also a focus on the differences in notation and approaches between different textbooks.

Kolahal Bhattacharya
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this is not homework help.I want to know.

Hello,can anyone suggest why for a dipole m placed in a magnetic field B
F=grad(m.B)
and N=mxB?
 
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Kolahal Bhattacharya said:
Hello,can anyone suggest why for a dipole m placed in a magnetic field B
F=grad(m.B)
and N=mxB?

Take an infinitesimal current loop of arbitrary shape and use the Lorentz force law.
 
siddharth said:
Take an infinitesimal current loop of arbitrary shape and use the Lorentz force law.
That will work, but the derivation is a bit involved for an arbitrary shape.
If you are satisfied with doing it for a rectangular loop, that is easier for the torque. Once you know the torque, you can show U=-mu.B, and then
use F=-grad U.
If you model the magnetic dipole as two magnetic poles, then the derivations are just the same as for electric dipoles, which are easier.
 
To Siddharth:I found your approach in jackson.However,Griffiths also asks in his exercise to do in the same way.Only Jackson used J while Griffiths prefers I (in his hint).
I got upto:
F=I* closed int{dl x [(r. grad_0)B](r_0)} where dl is infinitesimal loop element; and the right portion is obtained after Taylor series expansion.
Now griffiths and Jackson says to use Levi-Civita symbols...
I was trying to insert the result: vector area a= (1/2)int{ r x I) inside the integral extracting (dl x r) so that I can get 'a' inside the integral and then have dm inside.But got stuck.It appears I am near the way but cannot get it.
Please help.

The other approach ultimately assumes F=grad(m.B).So, I prefer not to use it.
 

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