How can potential energy be negative?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of negative potential energy, exploring its definition, reference points, and implications in physics. Participants examine the conditions under which potential energy can be considered negative, particularly in relation to gravitational fields and other forces.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that potential energy is relative and can be negative depending on the chosen reference point, such as being below ground level.
  • Others explain that potential energy is defined as the work done to bring a unit mass from a reference point, which can lead to negative values if the reference point is set at infinity.
  • A participant suggests that gravitational potential energy would always be negative if infinity is used as the reference point, framing the situation as being in a "gravitational hole."
  • One participant proposes that the term "potential energy" may be misleading when negative, suggesting an alternative term like "relative configurational energy" to clarify its context.
  • Another viewpoint is introduced regarding repulsive fields, where potential energy is always positive when dealing with like charges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of potential energy, particularly regarding its sign and the implications of reference points. No consensus is reached on a singular definition or understanding of negative potential energy.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on chosen reference points and the implications of different definitions of potential energy. There are unresolved aspects regarding how these definitions apply across various contexts, such as gravitational versus electric fields.

LoganNagol
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
In my physics class I was told that potential energy can be negative because it relative, but i thought as long as something has room to fall it has a positive amount of potential energy. So how can potential energy be negative?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
LoganNagol said:
In my physics class I was told that potential energy can be negative because it relative, but i thought as long as something has room to fall it has a positive amount of potential energy. So how can potential energy be negative?

Hi LoganNagol! Welcome to PF! :oldsmile:

We are free to set a reference point.
Usually we set a reference point for potential energy at ground level.
Consequently, the potential energy is typically ##mgh##, where ##h## is the height above ground level.
This works just fine as long as we stay above ground level.
But of course we can get below ground level, giving us a negative potential energy.
This doesn't mean that the total energy is negative, since that is not possible.
It only means that the potential energy, as we defined it, becomes negative.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LoganNagol
LoganNagol said:
In my physics class I was told that potential energy can be negative because it relative, but i thought as long as something has room to fall it has a positive amount of potential energy. So how can potential energy be negative?
Potential is always referred to some location.
Using the definition of Potential as the Work Done to take a unit mass from the reference point gives you a negative amount of work to do, bringing your mass in from a reference location at infinity but a positive value if your reference point is at the bottom of a hill.
The only location that is the same for everyone on Earth, The Solar System or the Galaxy is a location that's an infinite distance away. Taking that definition of Potential gives a conveniently consistent answer.
This is just one of the many occasions where you have to choose a sign at the beginning of your calculations and maintain consistency right up until the answer. IF you do that then the numbers take care of themselves and you get the right answer.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LoganNagol
Note that if we use Sophie's reference point of infinity as zero and note that gravity only attracts, then gravitational potential energy would always be negative. We are always in a gravitational hole. You always have to climb out to get to infinity. Maybe negative potential should surprise you less than positive!

I think the English word "potential" is what sets people's expectations. For positive potential it makes perfect sense. You have the "potential" to do some work with this energy. However it is kind of the wrong word when it is negative. Perhaps it should be called "relative configurational energy". Then the idea that it is relative to some reference configuration is explicit and there is no linguistic bias on the sign. It may take work to get to the reference configuration, or it may give work. On the other hand, what a horrible mouthful. You can't even pronounce it as an acronym.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Electron Spin and LoganNagol
If you have a repulsive field - e.g. + and + charges, the Potential Energy, by the above definition, is always greater than zero.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LoganNagol

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
7K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K