How can we solve for both T₂ and m in a system with multiple unknowns?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rtareen
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Unknowns
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a system in equilibrium, where the original poster seeks to find the unknown tensions T₂ and mass m after determining T₁. The context includes analyzing forces acting on a junction and a hanging mass using free body diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the force balance equations and question the inclusion of the mass m in the vertical force balance at the junction. There is an exploration of how tensions act differently on the junction compared to the mass.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on clarifying the force balance equations and the separation of the junction from the mass. There is an acknowledgment of the need to consider the forces acting on the knot separately from those acting on the mass.

Contextual Notes

There is a focus on understanding the roles of different forces and the implications of including or excluding certain variables in the equations. The original poster expresses a shift in understanding regarding the setup of the problem.

rtareen
Messages
162
Reaction score
32
Homework Statement
For the systems in equilibrium in the figure below, find the unknown tensions and masses
Relevant Equations
ΣF = ma = 0
Here are two questions for my online homework. In part (a) we have to find T₁, T₂, and m.
For part a, I drew a free body diagram and used that ΣFₓ = -30N +T₁cos(60) = 0 To find T₁ = 60N. The software accepted my answer. Now we have to find T₂ and m. We have ΣFᵧ = T₂ + T₁sin(60) + mg = 0. We do not know T₂ and we do not know m. So how can we solve for both?
1582575672724.png
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You need to be clear about what your force balance equation represents. ΣFy on what, exactly? Since you have the three tensions in there, it must be the force balance on the knot. The knot doesn't "know" anything about m - that's somewhere else.
To get mg into it you need to consider the force balance on the vertical string.
 
rtareen said:
Homework Statement:: For the systems in equilibrium in the figure below, find the unknown tensions and masses
Relevant Equations:: ΣF = ma = 0

Here are two questions for my online homework. In part (a) we have to find T₁, T₂, and m.
For part a, I drew a free body diagram and used that ΣFₓ = -30N +T₁cos(60) = 0 To find T₁ = 60N. The software accepted my answer. Now we have to find T₂ and m. We have ΣFᵧ = T₂ + T₁sin(60) + mg = 0. We do not know T₂ and we do not know m. So how can we solve for both?View attachment 257619
mg should not be in the vertical force balance on the junction.
 
Chestermiller said:
mg should not be in the vertical force balance on the junction.
I didnt know we had to consider the junction separately from the mass. Now I can probably do it myself. Thank you
 
haruspex said:
You need to be clear about what your force balance equation represents. ΣFy on what, exactly? Since you have the three tensions in there, it must be the force balance on the knot. The knot doesn't "know" anything about m - that's somewhere else.
To get mg into it you need to consider the force balance on the vertical string.
Thank you. I now know to consider the knot separately from the hanging mass.
 
rtareen said:
I didnt know we had to consider the junction separately from the mass. Now I can probably do it myself. Thank you
The question is, do you know why?
 
Chestermiller said:
The question is, do you know why?

I think I do. It is because all of the tensions are actually acting on the junction, not the mass itselfwhile only one of those tensions are acting on the mass. Am I right?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Chestermiller
rtareen said:
I think I do. It is because all of the tensions are actually acting on the junction, not the mass itselfwhile only one of those tensions are acting on the mass. Am I right?
Yes.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: rtareen

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K