How could a photon travel at lightspeed if it has mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of photons, specifically addressing the question of whether photons have mass and how they can travel at the speed of light. Participants explore concepts related to mass, energy, and the implications of these properties in the context of relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that photons have mass, questioning the implications of a stationary photon and where this mass originates.
  • Others challenge the idea that photons possess nonzero invariant mass, noting that there are only upper limits on photon mass and emphasizing that photons have energy and momentum instead.
  • A participant suggests that stating "photons have energy" is less confusing than saying "photons have relativistic mass," arguing that the latter leads to misunderstandings.
  • One participant references a historical explanation regarding photon mass and its implications for speed, noting that if photons had mass, they could not travel at the speed of light.
  • Another participant clarifies that the term "invariant mass" is more appropriate than "stationary mass" and explains that mass cannot reach the speed of light, reiterating that light is always observed at speed 'c' regardless of the observer's motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether photons have mass, with some asserting they do and others arguing against this notion. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of mass and energy, as well as the implications of relativistic effects on the perception of light speed. The conversation reflects a range of interpretations and assumptions that are not fully reconciled.

acesuv
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I've heard that photons have a mass. If a photon were to be stationary, would it have mass? If not, then where does the mass of a photon come from?

I know that if an object has stationary mass (forgive me if this isn't the correct term), then it takes an infinite amount of energy in order to achieve light speed.

I suppose that the mass of the photon is actually energy which is acquired somehow?
 
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acesuv said:
I've heard that photons have a mass.

Where did you hear/read this? I'm not aware of any results indicating that photons have a nonzero invariant mass (a.k.a. "rest mass"). All I've ever seen are upper limits.
 
This thread is a good example of WHY it's less confusing to say "photons have energy" than "photons have relativistic mass". These two statements mean exactly the same thing, but I believe one is significantly less confusing to the lay person and significantly less likely to lead to confused followup questions and other assorted confusions.
 
acesuv said:
I've heard that photons have a mass. If a photon were to be stationary, would it have mass? If not, then where does the mass of a photon come from?

I know that if an object has stationary mass (forgive me if this isn't the correct term), then it takes an infinite amount of energy in order to achieve light speed.

I suppose that the mass of the photon is actually energy which is acquired somehow?

It was explained to me, on my first internet science forum, on March 13, 1997, thusly:

munu said:
If photons have a small rest mass, they can no longer move at the speed we call "c". I know its confusing that in this situation "c" can no longer be described as the "velocity of light", but the situation is completely consistent and satisfactory, and is open to various experimental tests, which yield the limit of about 10-20 eV for the photon mass.

hmmm... I wonder if anyone has kept track of how many times this question has been asked.

hmmm... It sure took me a long time to get a humour award.

Om said:
If it were more than zero, according to einstein, it's mass would be infinite, it would suck up the whole universe, and we would all be dead.
(this is nonsense...moderator)

:-p

(ref)
 
If a photon were to be stationary, would it have mass?

photons always move at 'c' locally.


If not, then where does the mass of a photon come from?

as noted, photons have energy [and momentum], not mass.


I know that if an object has stationary mass (forgive me if this isn't the correct term), then it takes an infinite amount of energy in order to achieve light speed.

The term you seek is 'invariant mass', also commonly called called 'rest mass'. The 'infinite energy' is an imprecise way to explain that mass cannot travel at speed 'c'...only slower. There is not sufficient energy anywhere to make that happen. A simpler view is that any observer [which requires mass] sees local light at speed 'c' no matter how fast they are going.

So even a really fast observer still sees light buzzing by at good old 'c'...In other words, if you were able to accelerate and move at, say, 0.7C, which is possible, you would still observe light passing you by at the usual 'c'.
 

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