How could you remove all the oxygen from Earth's Atmosphere? Hypothetically

[RobinsonJ]

Wow, I've been busy. Slow reply!

No need to worry about wet blankets. I welcome all possibilities. The benefit of being a fiction writer is that I can choose to ignore certain facts to make a story work, or in this case, come up with a solution that works, even if its hypothetical.

-- Jeremy

 

[Count Iblis]

Oxygen catastrophe in reverse mentioned by MATLABdude would easily work. Oxygen only started to accumulatate in the oceans and then laterin the atmosphere after all the iron was oxydized. So, we just need to dig up a lot of iron from the Earth's interior and the oxygen will vanish quite rapidly.

Another option is to sterilize the planet. The oxygen will then eventually vannish because it slowly reacts with the nitrogen in the atmosphere and it won't be replaced anymore. A nearby gamma ray burst could speed up that reaction significantly and it could sterilize the planet too.

 

[chemisttree]

The August edition of Sky and Telescope features, on the cover, the title, "What's Wrong With the Sun? Our host star has gone nearly spotless for more than a year."

...A group of experts convened by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOA) fomed a Solar Cycle 24 Prediction Panel. The panelists generally split into two camps. Some forcasted a strong solar maximum, with a lot of sunspots that ramped up quickly, reaching a peak sometime in late 2011. Others predicted a weak maximum, with fewer sunspots whose numbers would peak around mid-2012.

...To everyone's suprise, however, the Sun has decided to fall behind schedule. The scientists in both camps expected the Sun to reach its sunspot minimum in March 2008, after which the Sun would begin ramping up to the new solar maximum. Instesad, the Sun decided to remain quieter than it has been in almost a century. It is now more than a year since March 2008, and the Sun remains nearly blank, in one of the deepest solar minima on record.

... The Ulysses spacecraft spent the last two decades in polar orbit around the Sun. Ulysses found that during that period the solar wind's speed dropped by about 3%, its temperature dropped by 13%, and its density dropped by 20%. Such changes mean that the solar wind is exerting less pressure on the intergalactic medium, thereby shrinking the heliosphere and allowing more cosmic rays from our galaxy to leak into the solar system.

Astronomers are wondering what lies ahead... Could it be death from above? (in the novel)

 

[RobinsonJ]

Awesome. I actually just submitted my proposal for the book to my agent. It's a 78 page sample and a summary. If he likes it we'll start taking it out to publishers. If not, I may need to rework. But I'll definitely keep you posted on any developments!

 

[OAQfirst]

I had read that, way back in Earth's early history, oxygen was poisonous to organisms. Then they developed their cellular "machinery" to be able to tolerate it. So I'm going out on a limb, and in spite of the mechanism probably already chiseled in stone, but what is the feasibility of a process that compromises that machinery?

 

[chemisttree]

I had read that, way back in Earth's early history, oxygen was poisonous to organisms. Then they developed their cellular "machinery" to be able to tolerate it. So I'm going out on a limb, and in spite of the mechanism probably already chiseled in stone, but what is the feasibility of a process that compromises that machinery?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Are you asking a question about a particular process that disables an organism's ability to survive in an oxygen environment? If so, what organism do you have in mind? An anerobic one?

 

[PRDan4th]

I know that I am coming to this question a bit late and your story is sounding good with the iron oxide idea (rusting earth). Another thought is rather than deleting oxygen with an oxidation exothermic reaction, why not pose a scenario where an anti-global warming experiment goes bad! One idea would be to try to eliminate the CO2 in the atmosphere by reversing it to C and O2 somehow and the result is it only goes half way to CO and 1/2 O2, causing a poisonous atmosphere. This would be a reduction reaction taking heat from the sun and cooling the Earth as well.

The failed reaction would have been:

CO2 + H2O + heat >> C + H2 + 1.5 O2

The oops reaction would be:

CO2 + H2O + less heat >> CO +1/2 H2 + O2 ( reverse of water gas shift reaction)

Just another idea.

 

[chemisttree]

And now http://gizmodo.com/5305398/nasa-kills-ulysses- spacecraft -after-18-years-of-studying-the-sun" ... or was it?

 

[LURCH]

Still looking for a title? If you're going to use iron oxide, might I suggest, "The Devil's Ferrous Wheel"?

 

[DaveC426913]

Still looking for a title? If you're going to use iron oxide, might I suggest, "The Devil's Ferrous Wheel"?

Good one!

 

[Mech_Engineer]

While we're brainstorming ideas, I like the idea of the "cosmic rust storm" bought in by Jupiter's gravitational field, and it could come with some very interesting visuals of rust snow covering everything... Maybe instead of completely killing off the oxygen supply right away it could cause "rust storms" that last for several weeks...

On another note, what about a biological experiment gone bad? Perhaps some scientists could be working on a new genetically modified bacteria (what they're trying to do is indeterminite, maybe trying to design an organic battery or fuel cell or something that runs off of oxygen and hydrogen) when they realize an unexpected mutation occurs which allows the bacteria to utilize some exothermic reaction involving oxygen and some other abundant material (maybe carbon? nitrogen?) to reproduce at an alarming rate. Due to the bacteria's unexpected hardiness, it escapes the lab and spreads into the water supply (a "perfect" environment for it), and ends up spreading into the oceans and covering the Earth until oxygen supplies are depleted and the bacterial plume dies off, leaving the surviving plant life to rebuild the eco-system...

 

[Kenneth Mann]

I think the most logical mechanism for what you are seeking is a "gamma ray burst" directed at the Earth. These result from very large stars (much larger than our sun) dying and collapsing upon themselves. Essentially these stars lose the internal energy (thermonuclear) that has kept them going and they collapse. During the progression, some of these stars emit extremely intense bursts of gamma radiation, in concentrated beams directed outwardly from the poles of the star's rotation. We would be effected by these beams only if they were directed toward us and the star were close enough. If, for example, the burst came at us from a few thousand light-years away (within our galaxy) the effect would most likely be a loss of much of the ozone layer with two probable outcomes 1) a very large increase in the ultraviolet radiation reaching us, and 2) a large increase of oxides of nitrogen, probably resulting in notable drop in surface temperatures. The outcome would be a large mass extinction (most probably, similar to one that occurred once before).

If, on the other hand, the burst came from only a few hundred light years away, it would blow away the atmosphere and the oceans, resulting in c complete extinction of all life on Earth - - - leaving this planet as a barren rock. Obvoiusly, the ranges between would yield intermediate results.

The following links might be of use:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst



http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/03/wr-104-a-nearby-gamma-ray-burst/


KM

 

[Kenneth Mann]

Actually, "gamma ray burst" is probably not a good method for a novel, especially the more extreme case. How can you express any drama when the phenomenon happens totally without warning, and then "poof" everything is gone.

KM

 

[DaveC426913]

Actually, "gamma ray burst" is probably not a good method for a novel, especially the more extreme case. How can you express any drama when the phenomenon happens totally without warning, and then "poof" everything is gone.

A good writer could turn that into a great story.

 

[Count Iblis]

Gamma ray bursts don't have to happen without any warming. We can detect potentially dangerous stars in the neighborhood:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1975354.stm

 

[RobinsonJ]

Wow, it's been a long time since we had this conversation, but great news--the book is going to be published in 2012! The title of the book is SecondWorld. Now, I've used the theory proposed here that during a time when the solar winds decrease, a cloud of iron moves into the solar system, pummels the earth, oxidizes in the atmosphere and removes the oxygen. In my proposed story, the event was simply a force of nature for which the antagonists (neo-Nazis) were prepared for.

However, the publisher (Thomas Dunne/St. Martin's Press) has requested that the neo-Nazis, using secret Nazi technology, are able to direct the flow of these iron particles, like a weapon. The story starts with a test run being performed on a few cities, and then the countdown begins for when the global attack takes place and the hero has to save the day. You know the drill.

SO, what I'm trying to come up with now is any science, fringe or otherwise, that might explain how a cloud of iron, in space, might be pulled into and directed towards a certain area of the world. This is totally out there, I realize, but I really just need a few nuggets of truth to make is sound believable. And since this forum helped come up with the concept on which this is all based, I thought what better place to flesh out this next step.

Anyone who offers a theory that's used will be listed in the book's acknowledgments. This includes those who helped come up with the original theory--if that's you, send me your name and any applicable credentials (don't worry if you have none) at info@jeremyrobinsononline.com so I can thank you in the book.

Thanks all!

-- Jeremy

 

[MATLABdude]

My first thought was, "Yikes that's a lot of creative control!" Then I realized that Kenneth Mann gave that criticism upstream.

Maybe something involving the Thule society and the occult?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_society

That or a giant electrical array, generating a magnetic field and focussing and deflecting the stream of (presumably ionized) iron ions using the Lorentz force?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force

...Or removing the element of nature altogether and slagging one of the iron-rich asteroids in the asteroid belt to generate this iron ion flux. But if you had the wherewithal to do that, then why waste the energy breaking up the asteroid instead of just using it as a meteor and kinetic energy weapon?

Maybe fuse ideas ideas one and two and have the Thule folks channeling the 'occult'--making contact with the AI controlling an ancient electric grid put up by either benevolent aliens or our former highly technological ancestors? (That's probably more Coast to Coast AM / pulp scifi territory...)

 

[Meatbot]

SO, what I'm trying to come up with now is any science, fringe or otherwise, that might explain how a cloud of iron, in space, might be pulled into and directed towards a certain area of the world. This is totally out there, I realize, but I really just need a few nuggets of truth to make is sound believable. And since this forum helped come up with the concept on which this is all based, I thought what better place to flesh out this next step.

Billions of electromagnetic nano-spaceships fly out to it, attract the iron, fly back to Earth and demagnetize releasing iron particles.

 

[RobinsonJ]

I think I need to avoid the Thule Society and occult in this one and focus on science, even fringe science, but no aliens or spiritual world. In other books, I'm all for that, but the feel of this one is more science based. Like Crichton.

Like the sound of the Lorentz force. Will try to wrap my brain around that an understand it. :)

My thinking right now combines a lot of different supposed Nazi technology that conspiracy theory folks like to talk about--the bell, UFOs (not aliens), zero point energy, Antarctic hide out, etc. Essentially, while some escaped Nazi's joined society and became rich businessmen, funding neo-nazi subculture, many scientisits escape to the supposed Antarctic hideaway and continued research on this weapon. Among others. They're essentially satellites that look like UFOs, use the "Schappeller Coil" to power themselves indefinitely, and use some kind of force (maybe Lorentz) to pull the iron cloud into out of space and shove in past the first three layers of atmosphere, into the troposphere where it oxidizes and removes the oxygen from the air.

Yikes. Just need to nail down the crazy science.

 

[RobinsonJ]

Heh, interesting concept Meatbot, but that would be A LOT of nano space ships! :)

 

[chemisttree]

The creation of new technologies to serve man and even to save man and the Earth have often times lead to the most destructive of devices. Dynamite was invented by Alfred Nobel to make nitroglyceryn safer to handle but this development also made it safer for use on the battlefield. The promise of limitless energy by splitting the atom ultimately resulted in the most grave of dangers we face today.

It was no different in the time of SecondWorld. The decades before the sun's solar winds diminished saw extended periods of increased, chaotic solar activity. This increased activity created havoc with satellites and ground electrical transmission lines of SecondWorld. A debilitatingly expensive project was begun to augment and control the faltering magnetic field of the Earth itself. Huge nuclear reactors were positioned in favorable locations throughout the world powering massive electromagnets in an effort to place the magnetosphere at such an altitude to shield communications satellites and protect ground based electrical transmission lines. Only modest changes to the magnetic field were ever achieved and the sun entered a quiescent phase... the program was abandoned. The cost of that failed attempt bankrupted the world's banking systems leading to great economic chaos and rise of the Neo-Nazis who seized control of most of the nuclear facilities. Bankrolled by the sale of electrical power to their weaker neighbors, the Neo-Nazis began a program to use the power of the subterranean magnetics initially to place the satellites of unfriendly nations outside the protective umbrella of the magnetosphere. Their research expanded beyond mere amplification to enabling the magnetic pole of the Earth to be placed at will anywhere they desired. Initially this was believed to be a technology that would render the various magnetic compasses of an adversary useless in a time of battle. Nobody could forsee the awesome ability this gave it's handlers when the iron cloud arrived...

 

[RobinsonJ]

I like it, Chemisttree, but I have to stick with recent and actual history for this book. That's how the thriller genre is. I have to root everything in actual history, or slightly modified history. It's a pain, but sells more books. :) Maybe the devices, in orbit, could increase the magnetic field over a certain area, drawing the iron cloud over a specific target. I've got most of the details worked out by combining several actual Nazi technologies that were never perfected, but the crux of it all is getting these UFO-like craft to pull the iron in and slam it down on a portion of the planet, removing the oxygen over, say, Tokyo for a period of days. Easy, right? Heh.

Also, Chemisttree, didn't come up with the iron cloud theory originally? If you want to be in the acknowledgments, just let me know your name!

-- Jeremy

 

[chemisttree]

I am Chemisttree of the Physics Forum! If you prefer I will email you with the actuals...

Wouldn't it be cooler to acknowledge an anonymous cyber advisor rather than the real life? I mean, since I already have the "Science Advisor" medal, shouldn't I use it?

 

[RobinsonJ]

It's up to you. If you prefer to stay anonymous, that's fine. But if you want the resplendent glory of being in the acknowledgments, you can send your info to info@jeremyrobinsononline.com.

 

[ecsspace]

Also remember that the Earth's crust is 46% by weight composed of oxygen.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/elabund.html
Guess it's bound up in the rocks, water volume in aquifers, etc,
I think that the total volume of the Earth is composed of 30% oxygen...
Good topic for thread: consensus on Earth's composition by element percentage.

 

[geophysics10]

Massive electrical storm turns O2 to O3?

 

[geophysics10]

Oh... I'm off topic.

 

[Phrak]

You're not off topic, but you have revived a very old thread.

However, I sympathize with the original poster's concerns: How can we eliminate all this corrosive agent from the atmosphere, so detrimental to life?? It's the fault of the green stuff of course. The green stuff must go. It's completely destroyed the benign methane-carbon dioxide atmosphere beneficial to better bacterial life.

We must burn all the green things to extinction, but before that it is vital that the sequestered carbon be brought back to the surface of the planet to both eliminate the killer O₂ and bring back a natural CO₂ environment so that life can live anaerobically as nature intended.

 

[Smock]

Here is an idea: You could have man in the future become very dependent upon O2 burning machines and robots. Man has become so abundant that they really totally on these machines and could not live without them. However, as is known by many scientists, the machines will use up the oxygen faster than plants and algaes can replenish it. Even though humans know this is their end they can't turn off the robots and kill millions of people who the robots support. So the humans just march on to extinction caused at their own hands.

I know that changes a lot of your book but it is a cool idea.

 

[Nik_2213]

Uh, isn't some aurora research done by using microwave transmitter to 'tickle' ionosphere ? Changing the low-latitude effects might have to wait for Weird Science or opportunist strike during Solar Max CME...

FWIW, didn't Isaac Asimov do 'Currents of Space', and Arthur Conan Doyle do 'Poison Belt' ?? You could have your protagonists mention them...

Slightly OT, but I read recently about hypothetical photosynthetic organisms that released Chlorine instead of Oxygen: Setting them loose in our oceans would be *bad*...