How Do Conformal Transformations Extend Lorentz Symmetry in Physics?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around conformal transformations and their relation to Lorentz symmetry in four-dimensional spacetime. Participants explore the mathematical expressions and identities involved in deriving properties of these transformations, particularly focusing on the implications of the metric and derivatives in the context of physics.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to derive relationships between various derivatives and the metric, questioning how to simplify expressions involving these terms. There is exploration of identities and the implications of the Lorentzian metric on the transformations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on how to approach the derivations, suggesting the use of specific identities and derivatives. There is ongoing exploration of the implications of the results, particularly regarding the form of the function fμ(x) and its expansion in a power series.

Contextual Notes

Participants are operating under the constraints of a Lorentzian metric, which influences their reasoning about the transformations and the nature of the function being discussed. There is also a focus on ensuring that the mathematical expressions align with the physical interpretations in the context of conformal transformations.

latentcorpse
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The group of four dimensional space time symmetries may be generalised to conformal transformations [itex]x \rightarrow x'[/itex] defined by the requirement

[itex]dx'^2 = \Omega(x)^2 dx^2[/itex]

where [itex]dx^2 = g_{\mu \nu} dx^\mu dx^\nu[/itex] (recall that Lorentz invariance requires [itex]\Omega=1[/itex]). For an infinitesimal transformation [itex]x'^\mu = x^\mu + f^\mu(x), \Omega(x)^2=1+2 \sigma(x)[/itex].

Show that [itex]\partial_\mu f_\nu + \partial_\nu f_\mu = 2 \sigma g_{\mu \nu} \Rightarrow \partial \cdot f = 4 \sigma[/itex]

That was easy enough - I just multiplied through by a metric.

The next bit is:

Hence obtain

[itex]4 \partial_\sigma \partial_\mu f_\nu = g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \partial \cdot f + g_{\sigma \nu} \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f - g_{\sigma \mu} \partial_\nu \partial \cdot f[/itex]

I simply have no idea how to get this to work!
 
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The easiest way to show that is to obtain a formula for [tex]g_{\mu\nu} \partial_\sigma \partial\cdot f[/tex] by differentiating the formula that you already obtained. This formula will let you obtain expressions for each term on the RHS. By simplifying, you will obtain the LHS.
 
fzero said:
The easiest way to show that is to obtain a formula for [tex]g_{\mu\nu} \partial_\sigma \partial\cdot f[/tex] by differentiating the formula that you already obtained. This formula will let you obtain expressions for each term on the RHS. By simplifying, you will obtain the LHS.

ok thanks. i get:

[itex]\partial_\sigma \partial \cdot f = 4 \partial_\sigma \sigma \Rightarrow g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \partial \cdot f=4 g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \sigma[/itex]
So,
RHS= [itex]g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \partial \cdot f + g_{\sigma \nu} \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f - g_{\sigma \mu} \partial_\nu \partial \cdot f[/itex]
[itex]=4 g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \sigma = 4 g_{\sigma \nu} \partial_\mu \sigma - 4 g_<br /> {\sigma \mu} \partial_\nu \sigma[/itex]

not sure how to simplify this - i can't get rid of the metric because the contracted term will need dummy indices such as [itex]\partial \cdot f = \partial_\tau f^\tau[/itex] and the metric cannot act on these since the indices won't match up, will they?
 
You need to use

[itex] \partial_\mu f_\nu + \partial_\nu f_\mu = 2 \sigma g_{\mu \nu} [/itex]

as well.
 
fzero said:
You need to use

[itex] \partial_\mu f_\nu + \partial_\nu f_\mu = 2 \sigma g_{\mu \nu} [/itex]

as well.

great!

The next step is to show [itex]2 \partial_\sigma \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f = -g_{\sigma \mu} \partial^2 \partial \cdot f[/itex]

so i tried multiplyign through my last expression by [itex]\frac{1}{2} g_^{\mu \nu}[/itex] to no avail as i keep getting contraction of my metrics and clearly i want to keep a metric in the RHS?
 
You should take an appropriate derivative of

[itex] 4 \partial_\sigma \partial_\mu f_\nu = g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \partial \cdot f + g_{\sigma \nu} \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f - g_{\sigma \mu} \partial_\nu \partial \cdot f[/itex]

to show that.
 
fzero said:
You should take an appropriate derivative of

[itex] 4 \partial_\sigma \partial_\mu f_\nu = g_{\mu \nu} \partial_\sigma \partial \cdot f + g_{\sigma \nu} \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f - g_{\sigma \mu} \partial_\nu \partial \cdot f[/itex]

to show that.

ok. i used [itex]\partial^\nu[/itex] and that worked fine. Now I am supposed to show that [itex]\partial_\sigma \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f=0[/itex]. Is this because [itex]g_{\sigma \mu} = 0[/itex] for [itex]\sigma \neq \mu[/itex] since the question said we are dealing with a Lorentzian metric? i.e. g is diag(1,-1,-1,-1) or (-1,1,1,1) depending on convention used.

Why does it then follow that [itex]f_\mu(x)[/itex] can only be quadratic in [itex]x[/itex]?
 
latentcorpse said:
ok. i used [itex]\partial^\nu[/itex] and that worked fine. Now I am supposed to show that [itex]\partial_\sigma \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f=0[/itex]. Is this because [itex]g_{\sigma \mu} = 0[/itex] for [itex]\sigma \neq \mu[/itex] since the question said we are dealing with a Lorentzian metric? i.e. g is diag(1,-1,-1,-1) or (-1,1,1,1) depending on convention used.

It's simpler than that. Try to use one of the identities to show that [itex]\partial^2 \partial \cdot f=0[/itex] first.

Why does it then follow that [itex]f_\mu(x)[/itex] can only be quadratic in [itex]x[/itex]?

You can expand [itex]f_\mu(x)[/itex] in a power series if you want.
 
fzero said:
It's simpler than that. Try to use one of the identities to show that [itex]\partial^2 \partial \cdot f=0[/itex] first.



You can expand [itex]f_\mu(x)[/itex] in a power series if you want.

is it as simple as taking
[itex]2 \partial_\sigma \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f = - g_{\sigma \mu} \partial^2 \partial \cdot f[/itex]
and multiplying through by a [itex]g^{\sigma \mu}[/itex]

to get 2 \partial^2 \partial \cdot f = -4 \partial^2 \partial \cdot f \Rightarrow 6 \partial^2 \partial \cdot f =0[/itex] hence result?

i am not sure what to do for the power series bit?
[itex]f_\mu(x)= \dots[/itex]
how do i organise the indices on the RHS of that?
 
  • #10
latentcorpse said:
is it as simple as taking
[itex]2 \partial_\sigma \partial_\mu \partial \cdot f = - g_{\sigma \mu} \partial^2 \partial \cdot f[/itex]
and multiplying through by a [itex]g^{\sigma \mu}[/itex]

to get 2 \partial^2 \partial \cdot f = -4 \partial^2 \partial \cdot f \Rightarrow 6 \partial^2 \partial \cdot f =0[/itex] hence result?

Yes.

i am not sure what to do for the power series bit?
[itex]f_\mu(x)= \dots[/itex]
how do i organise the indices on the RHS of that?

Around the zero vector,

[tex]f_\mu(x) = \sum_n c_{\mu \mu_{1}\cdots\mu_{n} } x^{\mu_1} \cdots x^{\mu_n},[/tex]

where the [tex]c_{\mu \mu_{1}\cdots\mu_{n} }[/tex] are constant coefficients.
 
  • #11
fzero said:
Yes.



Around the zero vector,

[tex]f_\mu(x) = \sum_n c_{\mu \mu_{1}\cdots\mu_{n} } x^{\mu_1} \cdots x^{\mu_n},[/tex]

where the [tex]c_{\mu \mu_{1}\cdots\mu_{n} }[/tex] are constant coefficients.

don't you mean [itex]f_\mu(x) = c_\mu + c_{\mu_1} x^{\mu_1} + c_{\mu_2} x^{\mu_2} + \dots[/itex]?

so how do i justify this? can i just say

[itex]\partial \cdot f = \mu_1 c_{\mu_1} + \mu_2 c_{\mu_2} x^{\mu_1} + \mu_3 c_{\mu_3} x^{\mu_2} + \dots[/itex]
and then
[itex]\partial^2 \partial \cdot f = \mu_1 \mu_2 \mu_3 c_{\mu_3} + \mu_1 \mu_2 \mu_3 \mu_4 c_{\mu_4} x^{\mu_1} + \dots = 0[/itex]

how can i tell then that [itex]c_{\mu_i}=0 \forall i \geq 3[/itex]?

Thanks.
 
  • #12
latentcorpse said:
don't you mean [itex]f_\mu(x) = c_\mu + c_{\mu_1} x^{\mu_1} + c_{\mu_2} x^{\mu_2} + \dots[/itex]?

so how do i justify this? can i just say

[itex]\partial \cdot f = \mu_1 c_{\mu_1} + \mu_2 c_{\mu_2} x^{\mu_1} + \mu_3 c_{\mu_3} x^{\mu_2} + \dots[/itex]

The [tex]\mu_i[/tex] in the series I wrote down are spacetime indices, not exponents. This is a series expansion in the spacetime coordinates written covariantly. It's equivalent to a series like

[tex]\sum_{(n_t, n_x,n_y,n_z)} A_{n_t n_x n_y n_z} t^{n_t} x^{n_x} y^{n_y} z^{n_z},[/tex]

but written in a far more useful form.

and then
[itex]\partial^2 \partial \cdot f = \mu_1 \mu_2 \mu_3 c_{\mu_3} + \mu_1 \mu_2 \mu_3 \mu_4 c_{\mu_4} x^{\mu_1} + \dots = 0[/itex]

how can i tell then that [itex]c_{\mu_i}=0 \forall i \geq 3[/itex]?

Thanks.

It should be clearer once you figure out what the series means.
 

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