How Do Electric and Magnetic Fields Influence Atomic Orbital Shapes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the influence of electric and magnetic fields on the shapes of atomic orbitals. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and specific cases such as the effects of strong magnetic fields from magnetars on atomic structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether atomic orbital shapes change under electric or magnetic fields.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the origin of orbitals and how external fields affect the governing equations.
  • Some participants argue that in everyday experiences, magnetic fields do not significantly alter atomic orbital shapes, while others counter that certain conditions, like those near magnetars, can lead to substantial distortions of atomic structures.
  • A participant mentions that magnetic dipole transitions, although weaker than electric dipole transitions, can still influence atomic behavior.
  • There is a discussion about the Hamiltonian for an electron in a magnetic field, suggesting that static fields can also perturb electron motion.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the applicability of quantum effects in static fields versus time-dependent fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent to which magnetic fields influence atomic orbital shapes, with some asserting negligible effects in typical scenarios while others highlight significant changes under extreme conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the general applicability of these effects.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves complex quantum mechanical principles, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the specific conditions under which these effects occur, particularly concerning the nature of the fields (static vs. time-dependent) and the mathematical formulations involved.

Shubhamroy047
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Does the shape of atomic orbital changes when exposed to electric or magnetic field?
 
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What do you think?

Where does the orbital come from (solution of which equation)? How does that equation change when there is an external field?
 
No and yes. The distances of electron clouds is quite short and the forces very strong. No magnetic field in everyday experience changes their shape in any non-negligible way. As DrClaude pointed out though, look at what the equations do when you introduce a magnetic field.

Magnetars are the super heavyweights of magnetism and do some wonky things to atoms. Hydrogen atoms stretch 200 times their normal length and distort electron clouds so much that chemistry becomes impossible. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetar
 
newjerseyrunner said:
No magnetic field in everyday experience changes their shape in any non-negligible way.
This is incorrect. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_dipole_transition
It's weaker than an electric dipole transition, but it's comparable to an electric quadrupole transition.
 
It's also worth pointing out that the field doesn't have to be time-dependent in order to perturb the electron motion. Think of the Hamiltonian for an electron in a B field with an added 1/r potential term.
 
My mistake.

Interesting. The article Looks like it's talking about quantum effects of an electromagnetic wave. Does this apply to a static field? The original post to be is describing something like an atom next to a bar magnet.
 
newjerseyrunner said:
Does this apply to a static field?
Yes. In the link I provided above, none of the terms in the Hamiltonian are required to be time dependent. Think about the motion of a free electron in a static B field, then add a 1/r potential for the nucleus. In fact, even without the electron's spin, you get coupling between the magnetic field generated by the electron's orbital angular momentum and the B field (assuming L≠0).
 
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