How do I solve a Nodal Analysis problem with multiple unknowns?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a nodal analysis problem involving multiple unknowns in an electrical circuit. Participants explore various equations and methods for analyzing the circuit, including the use of supernodes and current relationships, while addressing confusion regarding voltage and current definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that V1 is 400mA and expresses confusion about how to incorporate a 14V source into their equations.
  • Another participant clarifies the distinction between voltage and current, suggesting the use of a super-node approach for analysis.
  • Several participants discuss the formulation of current equations, with one proposing I1 = i2 + i3 + i4 and another correcting the initial equation.
  • There is a debate about the correct relationships for currents i3 and i4, with questions raised about the absence of certain resistors in the schematic.
  • Participants express confusion over the labeling of components and the implications of using voltage relationships in their equations.
  • One participant suggests that simplifying variables by substituting V2 with V1 + 6 can help, while another emphasizes the importance of maintaining clarity in labeling components.
  • A later reply suggests that the participant may lack the necessary background for the problem and encourages them to attempt solving it independently.
  • One participant defends their background in electronics and expresses frustration at perceived disrespect from others in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to the problem, with multiple competing views on how to apply nodal analysis and the relationships between currents and voltages. Confusion persists regarding the labeling of components and the application of supernodes.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion, including missing assumptions about the circuit schematic and unresolved mathematical relationships. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with nodal analysis techniques.

wencme
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Hi, V1 for this problem is 400mA and no matter how I work this problem I cannot get the correct answer.
V2=V1+6
For the second equation, I don't know what to do with 14V. I've tried subtracting it from V1 divided by the 4 ohm resister, most logical, and that doesn't work. I've tried multiple things and I'm having no luck. Please point me in the right direction?
 

Attachments

  • hwhelp.jpg
    hwhelp.jpg
    26.9 KB · Views: 432
Physics news on Phys.org
1. V1 is a voltage and 400 mA is a current. I'm not sure whether you fundamentally do not understand the difference between the two, or you communicated it to us wrong.

2. you should solve this problem using a super-node as described in your previous post. Try writing a kcl using the current going out of the V1-V2 supernode.
 
Yes I meant mV and I do know the difference thanks. I have tried so far:
I1=i2+i3+i4
I1+i2+i3+i4=0
 
so your first equation was incorrect.
your second equation is correct.

I1+i2+i3+i4=0

using ohms law, we know that I=V/R
using that equation replace the current with the voltage difference across the resistor over the resistance. Instead of using V2, use V1+6.

I will do i4 for you
I1+I2+I3+ ((V1+6)-0)/6 =0
 
Alright thanks! But now I have a more baffling aspect to consider: why is i3 equal to v2/r and i4 equal to (v1+6)/r?
 
wencme said:
Alright thanks! But now I have a more baffling aspect to consider: why is i3 equal to v2/r
Why have you introduced "r" when there is no such element shown on your schematic?

What equation should you write to relate i3 and v2?

and i4 equal to (v1+6)/r?
There's that mysterious "r" again? :confused:

Can you write the equation relating i4 to R4?
 
Yeah, R is resistance. Is this because i4 is not included as part of the supernode? i3 is equal to v2/R3, so why isn't i4 equal to v2/R4?
 
wencme said:
i3 is equal to v2/R3,
There is no R3 element on you schematic!

so why isn't i4 equal to v2/R4?
If there were a resistor R4 and it had V2 volts across it, then its current certainly would be V2/R4. But I can see no R4 on your schematic. I presume you are referring to the 6Ω resistor?

Components should be labelled so you can refer to them by that label.
 
wencme said:
Alright thanks! But now I have a more baffling aspect to consider: why is i3 equal to v2/r and i4 equal to (v1+6)/r?

V2=V1+6...

When you have two nodes directly linked by a voltage source do not label them V1 and V2.
Assuming the voltage increase is Vs, label them V1 and V1+Vs.

does that make sense?

also olny refer to resistor values as r or r3 when then are labeled that way in the schematic. referring to elements in a way other than how they are labeled creates confusion.
 
  • #10
Yes, why isn't i4 equal to V2/6 if i3 is equal to V2/2? Is it because i4 is not part of the supernode?
 
  • #11
replacing the v2 with v1+6 is a way of reducing variables simplifying the equations. if it is confusing to you feel free to keep the v2 in the equation.
With more complicated circuits this will add another level of confusion
 
  • #12
wencme said:
Yes, why isn't i4 equal to V2/6 if i3 is equal to V2/2? Is it because i4 is not part of the supernode?

You say yes it makes sense, but then you use the same faulty logic...

you already said that V1+6=V2

so if i4=V2/6, then i4=(V1+6)/6

does that make sense?

If it does not i suggest you open up an algebra textbook
 
Last edited:
  • #13
wencme said:
Yes, why isn't i4 equal to V2/6
It is! And V2 = V1 + 6, so you can make that substitution at the same time.

i3 is equal to V2/2? Is it because i4 is not part of the supernode?
It seems you are attempting a problem for which you lack the necessary background. I suggest that you forget about the concept of a supernode, you don't need it, and first solve this exercise by any means you are familiar with to find all currents and voltages. It is clear that you need lots of practice, and the only way you will gain practice is by attempting exercises.

Can I conclude that you have obtained the solution from someone else and are trying to understand his working? You will learn a lot more by attempting the problem without another person's solution.

Try it yourself, any way you know.
 
  • #14
Thank you all very much. I have an AS in electronics and have been working as a tech for years, but I am forced to use alternative methods to solve circuits now while pursuing my EE degree. If you want to degrade me and ask if I know anything about this subject that's unfair. If I was as stupid as some of you suggest I wouldn't be asking questions. But thank you all for your help, but please try to be respectful.
 
  • #15
wencme said:
Thank you all very much. I have an AS in electronics and have been working as a tech for years, but I am forced to use alternative methods to solve circuits now while pursuing my EE degree. If you want to degrade me and ask if I know anything about this subject that's unfair. If I was as stupid as some of you suggest I wouldn't be asking questions. But thank you all for your help, but please try to be respectful.

Did not mean to be degrading mate. best of luck to you!
 

Similar threads

Engineering Why Is Nodal Analysis Confusing in This Circuit Example?
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Nodal Analysis Problem help (Double Supermesh)
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Engineering Solve this Circuit using both Nodal Analysis and Mesh Analysis
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
Steady State Sinusoidal using Nodal Analysis
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Engineering Nodal analysis of a fairly simple circuit
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
How do batteries influence nodal analysis in circuit homework?
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
How to solve a nodal analysis homework question?
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
Engineering Struggling with Nodal Analysis and Voltage Calculations
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Find V1 & V2 with Nodal Voltage Analysis
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Engineering Having trouble with some review circuits using nodal analysis
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K