How do inertial frames centered on a black hole's horizon work?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of inertial frames centered on a black hole's horizon, particularly focusing on a thought experiment involving an astronaut free-falling into a black hole and launching probes at different velocities. The inquiry raises questions about the behavior of these probes relative to the astronaut and the implications for general relativity (GR).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the astronaut's launch of two probes at different speeds relative to himself raises a paradox regarding their separation after crossing the horizon.
  • One participant suggests that not every object below the event horizon necessarily decreases its radius, challenging the assumption that all such objects must move inward.
  • Another participant questions whether an observer outside the event horizon would ever see the second probe launched, noting that light from that event cannot escape the horizon.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of simultaneity and how different observers might perceive the events of the probes in relation to their respective frames of reference.
  • Some participants argue that within the local inertial frame of the astronaut, the second probe should appear to move closer to the first, despite the global perspective indicating they are separating.
  • One participant emphasizes that length contraction and time dilation are not the relevant factors in this scenario, as the analysis is confined to a single inertial frame.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the thought experiment, particularly regarding the behavior of objects below the event horizon and the perspectives of different observers. No consensus is reached on the resolution of the paradox presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex concepts from general relativity, including the nature of inertial frames and the behavior of objects in extreme gravitational fields. Limitations include assumptions about the mass of the black hole and the effects of tidal gravity, which some participants argue can be neglected.

  • #91
craigi said:
Your rockets just shift the problem. How heavy is a rocket capable of imparting near infinite impulse?

If it bothers you that much, then assume that the two probes free-fall in with the astronaut but not connected to him in any way. Since free-fall trajectories are independent of the mass of the object, all three objects (the astronaut, the first probe rocket, and the second probe rocket) fall along the same trajectory (at least until each probe's rocket fires to launch it), which is all that's required for the thought experiment.

(Also, there's nothing in the scenario that requires the probes themselves--the payloads of the probe rockets--to be heavy objects. They could be nanotechnology probes made of a few tens of atoms. Then the total mass of each probe rocket could still be much, much smaller than the mass of the astronaut with his life support system, even after allowing for all the rocket fuel necessary to launch the probes at speeds close to that of light.)
 
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  • #92
Several off-topic posts have been removed and the thread closed.
 

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