How Do Time Sources and Space Sinks Relate to General Relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between time sources and space sinks in the context of General Relativity, examining how mass affects the passage of time and the measurement of lengths. It includes theoretical implications for particles and the Big Bang, as well as the geometric descriptions of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that clocks tick slower and lengths decrease near a mass, suggesting a "time source" at the mass and a "length sink" at infinity.
  • Another participant compliments the idea but questions its conversion into real physics.
  • A different participant points out several inaccuracies in the original claims, emphasizing that time duration does not reach zero at infinity and that length at the point mass is undefined.
  • There is a suggestion that the comparison between time and spatial lengths may not be fully correct, advocating for a distinction between relative time duration and relative spatial length.
  • One participant raises a question about the implications of viewing the concepts from the same point as the mass.
  • Another participant expresses interest in the discussion while admitting difficulty in understanding the basics of General Relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement. While some appreciate the foundational idea of time and space relationships, others challenge specific claims and interpretations, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the original claims regarding the behavior of time and length near a mass, including the need for clarification on the Schwarzschild radius and the nature of measurements at different distances from a mass.

Jonny_trigonometry
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General Relativity concludes that clocks tick slower when near a mass than far away from a mass. Also, a meter stick is shorter near a mass than far away. So as you move toward a mass, your time rate decreases, and lengths decrease. So in comparison to a meter and a second far from the mass, the second close to the mass can't "fit inside" the second far from the mass (since its duration is longer), and the meter close to the mass can "fit inside" the meter far away with room to spare (because it is shorter). Divert your attention now to the idea of a source and a sink. A source is a point where stuff comes from, and a sink is a point where stuff sinks into. Now, if your second is shorter in duration further from the mass, and in theory zero in duration infinately far away from the mass, and infinately long at the point where the mass is (if the mass has no radius), then what you have is sort of a "time source". Meaning, if no time passes infinately far from the mass, then there is no time there, and if an infinite amount of time passes at the center, there is an infinite amount of time there, and everywhere in between is the bridge between the two. So you could say that time radiates from a point mass. Similarly, if a meter is infinately long far from a mass, and infinately short at the location of the point mass, then we can say that there is no length at the location of the point mass, and infinite length infinately far from the mass, thus a point mass is also a "length sink". Since length is affected equally in all directions in a sufficiently small differential element (locally flat space) at some invariant distance from the point mass, we can simply call the "length sink" a "space sink". So now putting this together, we can say that a point mass is the superposition of a "time source" and a "space sink". In Quantum Mechanics, particles are treated as point masses (delta functions), so in theory, all particles have a radius of zero, and therefore there is a point close enough to them where space-time is curved so much that light can't escape from their local curvature, hence, all particles are micro black holes, so they are infinately small, and therefore at their center, a second has infinite duration, and a meter has no length, so we can think of all particles as sources of time, and devourers of space. On the flip side, the big bang is the opposite of a black hole, so we can then think of it as a source of space and a sink of time, so at the point (singularity) of the big bang, a second has no duration, and a meter has infinite length. So, putting this together with what particles are, we can say that time flows from particles towards the big bang, and space flows from the big bang into particles. In a sense, everything is connected together spacially and temporally. As Einstein said, there is no such thing as separate things, everything is one (or something like that). Now, how we describe this geometrically is far beyond me.
 
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My compliments to you for this idea, Jonny_trigonometry!
I don't know how much of it could be converted into real physics, but, anyway, it's really terrific!
 
Your entertaining story contains some small mistakes. I'll pick out the sentences:
Jonny_trigonometry said:
Now, if your second is shorter in duration further from the mass, and in theory zero in duration infinately far away from the mass
The duration of the second never gets zero in infinity. It is asymptotic to a fixed value, but that value does depend on the location of the observer who does the measurement. For an observer at infinity it is "1". For an observer closer to the mass it gets smaller.
Jonny_trigonometry said:
, and infinately long at the point where the mass is
This is not true for the point where the mass is but it is theoretically true for a point at the Schwarzschild radius.
Jonny_trigonometry said:
Meaning, if no time passes infinately far from the mass
See above...
Jonny_trigonometry said:
and if an infinite amount of time passes at the center
See also above...
Jonny_trigonometry said:
Similarly, if a meter is infinately long far from a mass
Same story. The length never gets infinitely long far away from the mass.
Jonny_trigonometry said:
, and infinately short at the location of the point mass, then we can say that there is no length at the location of the point mass, and infinite length infinately far from the mass
Again, the length at the location of the point mass is undefined. The radial length at the Schwarzschild radius is theoretically zero.
Jonny_trigonometry said:
Since length is affected equally in all directions in a sufficiently small differential element (locally flat space) at some invariant distance from the point mass
The radial length and the tangential length behave differently. Radial length tends to zero close to the Schwarzschild radius but tangential length does not. This follows from the Schwarzschild metric.

Next to all this I think it is not fully correct to compare time passing (which reflects kind of a "speed") with spatial lengths. The correct comparison is relative time duration with relative spatial length. This is probably what you have in mind anyway but the text is not consistent everywhere.

Jonny_trigonometry said:
In a sense, everything is connected together spacially and temporally.
This is where I finally agree with you.

Perhaps you could re-think your idea with these corrections in mind? Your basic idea about the source and sink is not that bad after all.
 
Last edited:
hmm... what about when theoretically viewed at the same point as the mass?
 
interesting stuff mortimer. I've been trying to understand some of the beginning basics of general relativity the past couple days, and oh my... I'll just take your word for it hehe.
 

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