How do we know we are not inside a blackhole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether we could be inside a black hole, exploring concepts related to general relativity, gravitational forces, and the nature of the universe's expansion. Participants examine the implications of black hole physics on our understanding of cosmic phenomena, including the observed redshift and dark energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if we were inside a black hole, it might appear as though we are standing still with matter expanding around us, proposing that the Hubble Horizon could be perceived as a personal event horizon influenced by tidal effects.
  • Another participant references an external discussion about the universe potentially being a black hole, indicating a broader context for the question.
  • Concerns are raised about the physical integrity of a body falling into a black hole, with some arguing that gravitational forces would eventually tear it apart, while others counter that these forces can be mild for a time depending on the black hole's size.
  • There is a clarification that the forces causing a body to be ripped apart are due to differential acceleration as it approaches the black hole, with a consensus that such forces manifest deep inside the horizon.
  • One participant asserts that the universe is not a black hole, referencing an external source for further discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of black holes and their implications for the universe, with no consensus reached on whether we could be inside a black hole or the nature of gravitational forces at play.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of gravitational effects within black holes and the potential for varying experiences based on the size of the black hole, indicating that assumptions about these effects may depend on specific conditions.

marcelhattingh
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If you fall into a black hole, that what is closer to the singularity, will fall faster that than what is further. However, space before and after you, is falling in with you. So from each General Relativistic perspective of "you", because there would be no inertial frame to orient yourself (you could see), it would seem, like you are standing still, with all matter in your personal observable universe expanding in all directions, in an accelerating manner. What if this is already busy happening. What if the Hubble Horizon is just our personal event horizon, as seen from the "inside", and Dark Energy, is just due to extreme tidal effects? If this is true, the observed red shift due to apparent expansion wouldn't be 100% uniform in different directions (measured at fixed distances from earth). This is because of the inverse distance square law in Newton's Gravitational Force equation. Any thoughts?
 
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Is your body still in one piece? As I understand it, your body would be torn to shreds from the gravitational forces. So perhaps the proof is in the pudding.
 
Kevin McHugh said:
Is your body still in one piece? As I understand it, your body would be torn to shreds from the gravitational forces. So perhaps the proof is in the pudding.

That's a misconception about black holes. The gravitational stresses inside a black hole can be quite mild for a period of time. Eventually they will become great enough to rip you to pieces, but depending on the size of the black hole, that "eventually" can be an arbitrarily long time.
 
stevendaryl said:
That's a misconception about black holes. The gravitational stresses inside a black hole can be quite mild for a period of time. Eventually they will become great enough to rip you to pieces, but depending on the size of the black hole, that "eventually" can be an arbitrarily long time.

As I understand it, the forces that would rip a body apart are due to differential acceleration as the body is drawn to the black hole. Is that correct?
 
Kevin McHugh said:
As I understand it, the forces that would rip a body apart are due to differential acceleration as the body is drawn to the black hole. Is that correct?

It is true that a body free-falling into a black hole will be ripped apart by tidal forces at some point. But that point might be deep, deep inside the horizon, almost to the singularity. So there can be a very large volume of spacetime inside a black hole where bodies are not ripped apart by tidal forces.
 

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