How do we obtain the Lagrangian of the EM field in Ryder QFT, 2nd Edition?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the Lagrangian for the electromagnetic field as presented in Ryder's Quantum Field Theory. Participants are exploring the mathematical formulation and manipulation of the Lagrangian, particularly focusing on the transition from one form to another through integration and the treatment of surface terms.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to understand how to derive a specific form of the Lagrangian from its original expression. Questions are raised about the integration process and the justification for discarding surface terms in the derivation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and clarifications regarding the mathematical steps involved. There is an exploration of the implications of discarding certain terms and the conditions under which this is valid, though no consensus has been reached on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of understanding the treatment of 4-divergences and their role in the equivalence of different Lagrangian forms, emphasizing the need for clarity on when and why certain terms can be disregarded.

PhysiSmo
We have the Lagrangian of EM field: [tex]L=-\frac{1}{4}F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}[/tex]

Variation of Lagrangian give Maxwell's equations:

[tex]\partial_{\mu} F^{\mu\nu}=0[/tex].

or

[tex](g_{\mu\nu}\partial_{\mu}\partial^{\mu}-\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu})A^{\mu}=0.[/tex] (equation 7.3, p.241)

Ryder, then, claims that after partial integration, and discarding of surface terms, Lagrangian may be written

[tex]L=\frac{1}{2}A^{\mu}[g_{\mu\nu}\partial_{\mu}\partial^{\mu}-\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}]A^{\nu}[/tex].

I simply can't figure out this last derivation. Which quantity has to be integrated to give such result? How do we obtain this particular form? I played with various quantities and integrals, but can't prove it..thanx in advance.
 
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[tex]L=-\frac{1}{4}\left(\partial_{[\mu}A_{\nu]}\right)\left(\partial^{[\mu}A^{\nu]\right) =\frac{1}{2}\left[\left(\partial_{\nu}A_{\mu}\right)\left(\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu}\right)<br /> -\left(\partial_{\mu}A_{\nu}\right)\left(\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu}\right)\right][/tex]

Now move the derivatives and discard the 4-divergences.
 
Thank you for your answer! Ok, here we go:

[tex](\partial_{\nu}A_{\mu})(\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu})=\partial_{\nu}(A_{\mu}\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu})-A_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu}=[/tex]

[tex]=\partial_{\nu}(A_{\mu}\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu})-A^{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\partial_{\mu}A^{\nu}[/tex]

Similarly,

[tex](\partial_{\mu}A_{\nu})(\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu})=\partial_{\mu}(A_{\nu}\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu})-A^{\mu}(g_{\mu\nu}\partial_{\mu}\partial^{\mu})A^{\nu}[/tex].

I can see that discarding the first terms of each equation yields the correct result. But why one should discard these terms? I understand that when integrated, it can be converted to a surface integral and thus equal to zero. But why do we act so in this particular form, without integration?
 
Nope, discarding only takes place when both 4-divergences are under the integral sign . We act without integration and simply write

[tex]L=L'+ 4div[/tex]

And by integration we see that L and L' are physically equivalent, since the lagrangian action is the same.
 
Very well then! Thanks again for your help!
 

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