How Do You Calculate Tractive Force for Accelerating a Car?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gixer1127
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Calculation Force
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the tractive force required for a car to accelerate from 0 to 160 km/h in 4.2 seconds, considering a resistive force of 1000 N. Participants explore the concepts of average acceleration, net force, and the relationship between forces acting on the car, including friction and air resistance. The context includes both theoretical calculations and practical implications for an electric vehicle.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the average acceleration as 10.58 m/s² based on the conversion of speed from km/h to m/s.
  • Another participant questions the source of the 1000 N resistive force, which is later clarified as an average value for frictional and wind resistance during acceleration.
  • There is a discussion about the net force required to achieve the calculated acceleration, with some participants suggesting the use of Newton's second law (F=ma) to find the tractive force.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about whether the net force is equivalent to the tractive force and how to account for the resistive force in their calculations.
  • One participant suggests that the tractive force must overcome both the inertia of the car and the resistive forces, leading to a debate about how to properly set up the equations and free body diagrams.
  • Another participant notes that the average resistive force of 1000 N may not be constant throughout the acceleration, as air drag increases with speed.
  • There is a discussion about whether to add or subtract the resistive force from the calculated force required for acceleration, with differing opinions on the correct approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct method to calculate the tractive force, with multiple competing views on how to incorporate the resistive force and the implications of the car being fully electric. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the proper approach to the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions made regarding the resistive force and its variability during acceleration. The lack of a specified friction coefficient also contributes to the complexity of the discussion.

  • #31
I think it was Sir Isaac Newton that stated something like this:
"A body at rest tends to stay at rest."
"A body in motion tends to stay in motion."

Since the body you are talking about is a car that is trying to accelerate, its tendency (inertia) is tending to keep it at rest.

I know, we usually use the word "inertia" in the case of something that is moving tends to keep moving; but it works both ways!

So for a FBD, the arrow for Inertia points toward where the object (car) would be if no force were applied to it.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Tom
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Gixer1127 and Lnewqban
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Tom.G said:
I think it was Sir Isaac Newton that stated something like this:
"A body at rest tends to stay at rest."
"A body in motion tends to stay in motion."

Since the body you are talking about is a car that is trying to accelerate, its tendency (inertia) is tending to keep it at rest.

I know, we usually use the word "inertia" in the case of something that is moving tends to keep moving; but it works both ways!

So for a FBD, the arrow for Inertia points toward where the object (car) would be if no force were applied to it.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom. Yup, that's what I'm trying to get my head around. I'll get there in the end and have almost completed this particular assessment with the help of the folks on here. Very much obliged to all.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Tom.G and Lnewqban
  • #33
1682255666255.png
1682255666255.png

Hey folks. I've just had this come back as wrong from my tutor. He's saying the decimal point in (a) is in the wrong place. This in turn leads onto an incorrect answer for (b) and (c) Any pointers on where I've gone wrong?
 
  • #34
Gixer1127 said:
View attachment 325369View attachment 325369
Hey folks. I've just had this come back as wrong from my tutor. He's saying the decimal point in (a) is in the wrong place. This in turn leads onto an incorrect answer for (b) and (c) Any pointers on where I've gone wrong?
It's OK, I've seen the error of my ways
 
  • #35
Gixer1127 said:
... Hey folks. I've just had this come back as wrong from my tutor. He's saying the decimal point in (a) is in the wrong place. This in turn leads onto an incorrect answer for (b) and (c) Any pointers on where I've gone wrong?
In your calculations, avoid using mm for length, area or volume.
Before you start plugging numbers into equations, transfer all given data to the International System of Units:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units

In your case, make those 16 mm of diameter 16/1000 meters first.
One good clue about your error in a) answer was the result of a fraction of 1 mm2 as the cross-section area of a circle of 16 mm diameter: impossible.

Another clue on b) and d) answers: Pascals are N/m2 rather than N/mm2.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Gixer1127
  • #36
(b) Tensile strain (ɛ) = σ/E

Modulus of elasticity (E) of the bolt is 160GPa.

ɛ = 34468656.72Pa / 160x10⁹GPa = 0.0002154 (2.154x10¯⁴) (No units of measurement for strain)

(c) Extension = ɛ x original length

Extension = 0.0002154 x 20mm = 0.004308mm(4.308x10¯³)


I'm thinking the above in bold is not correct? Should I be converting the 20mm to 0.02m and working it that way? In which case the answer should be 4.308x10¯⁶ (0.000004308mm).
 
  • #37
Gixer1127 said:
(b) Tensile strain (ɛ) = σ/E

Modulus of elasticity (E) of the bolt is 160GPa.

ɛ = 34468656.72Pa / 160x10⁹GPa = 0.0002154 (2.154x10¯⁴) (No units of measurement for strain)

(c) Extension = ɛ x original length

Extension = 0.0002154 x 20mm = 0.004308mm(4.308x10¯³)


I'm thinking the above in bold is not correct? Should I be converting the 20mm to 0.02m and working it that way? In which case the answer should be 4.308x10¯⁶ (0.000004308mm).
Nope, going with 20mm, not 0.02m.
 
  • #38
Gixer1127 said:
Nope, going with 20mm, not 0.02m.
Where those 20 mm come from?
34468656.72Pa may be the wrong amount, based on the erroneously calculated cross-section area.
160x10⁹ GPa is not correct; it is either 160x10⁹ Pa or 160 GPa.
 
  • #39
Sorry, yes, I missed out in my original post where the 20mm comes into play.
The 16 mm diameter steel bolt with modulus of elasticity of 160 GPa and modulus of rigidity of 90 GPa shown in the diagram below holds two components together. The thickness of the bolted interface of the components is 20 mm.
And the question reads: (c) Calculate the change in length of the 20mm bolted interface of the bolt.
I'll change, in my calculation summary, to 160x10⁹ Pa, thank you.
I'm going to stick to my original answer, albeit with the correct decimal point placement. (34468656.72Pa) In my original calculation I had not input the data correctly in my calculator which gave me an incorrect decimal point placement.
So here's my final answers below with the 3 questions I got wrong due to my first answer being incorrect.

  1. Calculate the direct stress in the bolt at the centre of the joined components.
  2. Calculate the tensile strain experienced by the bolt.
  3. Calculate the change in length of the 20mm bolted interface of the bolt.
Area of cross section of 16mm dia. bolt is.
A = πr² = π x 0.008² = 2.01x10¯⁴mm² (0.000201mm²)

(a)Direct stress (σ) = Force/Area

= 6928.2N / 2.01(10¯⁴)mm² = 34468656.72 Pa (0.3446865672x10⁸)

(b) Tensile strain (ɛ) = σ/E

Modulus of elasticity (E) of the bolt is 160GPa.

ɛ = 34468656.72Pa / 160x10⁹Pa = 0.0002153 (2.153x10¯⁴) (No units of measurement for strain)

(c) Extension = ɛ x original length

Extension = 0.0002153 x 20mm = 0.004306mm(4.306x10¯³mm)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Lnewqban
  • #40
Gixer1127 said:
Area of cross section of 16mm dia. bolt is.
A = πr² = π x 0.008² = 2.01x10¯⁴mm² (0.000201mm²)
HUH?? How can the area be less than the diameter?
 
  • #41
Hi Tom. I thought I'd posted a reply a couple of days ago but obviously didn't push the send button. 🙄
You are 100% correct, of course. I used the wrong unit of measurement so thank you for spotting this. I have changed this and submitted for marking.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Tom.G

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
7K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
14K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
Replies
31
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K