How do you cope with not knowing?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the emotional and philosophical implications of not knowing certain aspects of the universe, particularly in the context of scientific inquiry and the legacies of historical figures in science. Participants reflect on their feelings about mortality, the pursuit of knowledge, and the discoveries that may remain elusive during their lifetimes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express sadness over the idea of dying without knowing certain truths about the universe, reflecting on historical figures like Newton and Galileo who missed out on later discoveries.
  • Others argue that worrying about what one may not discover is a waste of life and suggest focusing on enjoying the present.
  • One participant finds value in the state of "not knowing," suggesting that the process of grappling with unknowns can be more fulfilling than having answers.
  • Concerns are raised about the possibility of not being able to understand significant theories, such as quantum gravity, before death.
  • Some participants highlight the importance of having lived a life dedicated to inquiry, regardless of the outcomes, and express appreciation for the journey of discovery itself.
  • There is a discussion about the emotional weight of historical figures missing out on discoveries, with some feeling that they deserved to see their questions answered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the emotional responses to not knowing. While some advocate for a focus on the present and the joy of inquiry, others feel a sense of loss for unanswered questions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the implications of not knowing.

Contextual Notes

Participants' feelings about mortality and knowledge are influenced by personal reflections and philosophical perspectives, which may vary widely. The discussion touches on complex emotional and existential themes without reaching a consensus on how to cope with the unknown.

  • #31
Monique said:
I used to have a floppy disk with (part of) Encyclopædia Britannica on it, I always wanted to buy the books because it would be awesome to have all that knowledge. Now there is the internet :smile:

Add 8 years to that :smile: I'm 33, the other day a sales person on the street asked me "are you living on your own already?" Implying he doubted if I was still living with my parents :rolleyes: The first game console our family had was Pong, you connected this thing to the television screen and then you could play a primitive form of tennis. Then we obtained a personal computer that ran on cassette tapes. Lately at my work I'm hearing people say "if you used this [genetics] technology, you're ancient". So, it's official: I'm ancient.

At first I didn't recognize your image, it's wonderful how much more detailed the images have become.

Yay!

You just made my day. :smile:

33, and ancient... :smile:

computer.youre.paper.tape.jpg

:-p
 
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  • #32
I've never used punch cards, I'm not THAT old :biggrin: :smile:
 
  • #33
ZapperZ said:
And what do cosmologists study? For example, look at the various papers on cosmology. Do you think each of these papers describes our entire universe? Or do they specifically focus on a particular phenomenon or description? Dark energy isn't "The Universe", for example. Yet, there are papers on the various theoretical properties of DE, etc. This is not "The Universe"!

It's like claiming that you study the whole cow, when all you're looking at is the hoof.

Zz.
Reminds me of a quote from Mr, Newton and others:-


“I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the shore now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.” Live your life as an Exclamation rather than an Explanation.
 
  • #34
It is indeed frustrating knowing that you will not know the answers to the mysteries of the universe.Even worst , you probably won't know a single thing completely because everything is endlessly complicated.This is especially frustrating when you're an extremely curious person.

But beyond that frustration , I have to say that I prefer a universe filled with mysteries and answers to discover than a universe where everything is known.That great feeling of discovering something exists because there are many deep mysteries waiting to be solved.To me , mysteries give life all it's flavors (granted this is a weird metaphor but that's what spontaneously came to my mind).
 
  • #35
OmCheeto said:
Yay!

You just made my day. :smile:

33, and ancient... :smile:

computer.youre.paper.tape.jpg

:-p

You just made mine !

You can repair a "broken" file on that medium with Scotch tape and a toothpick. We've both no doubt done it, too.

We ran an ASR33 until 1990. You probably had KSR's in the military.
 
  • #36
"Paper" paper tape was the wimpy stuff. I've still got some of the oil-and-waterproof tape we used to use for numerical controlled machine tools, before "NC" turned into "CNC".

attachment.php?attachmentid=70469&stc=1&=1402346002.jpg


Those old paper tape punches were indestructible. I remember once coming into the tape duplicating room and finding one that had vibrated itself off its table and was still working away upside down on the floor.

We once gave some apprentices a "design and make" project to build a tape splicing block. They did a pretty good job, except for one small design flaw. They built it to last for ever, out of solid stainless steel, and it weighed about 20 pounds!
 

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  • #37
jim hardy said:
You just made mine !

You can repair a "broken" file on that medium with Scotch tape and a toothpick. We've both no doubt done it, too.

We ran an ASR33 until 1990. You probably had KSR's in the military.

"ASR33 until 1990"? :eek: Good god!

I used an ASR33 for one term during my sophomore year in high school, circa 1975. There were no more computer classes offered after that... :mad:

When I got to my submarine in 1979, they were up to hub-cap sized floppies, an IBM Selectric style keyboard, and no paper.

Within a year or two, I was the first person on the ship to have purchased their own PC. Which for all the young kids out there, did not mean "A Microsoft machine" (vs "An Apple").
It meant; "MY OWN PERSONAL COMPUTER!"

argh.

ps.

Wilbur and Orville Wright's First Flight
December 17, 1903
"For some years, I have been afflicted with the belief that flight is possible to man. My disease has increased in severity and I feel that it will soon cost me an increased amount of money if not my life." Three years after Wilbur Wright wrote those words, he and his brother Orville put their belief in flight to the test in Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina.

Did their attempt to fly an airplane they had built in sections in the back room of their Dayton, Ohio bicycle shop cost Wilbur his life?...

According to wiki, 8 of the surviving oldest 100 people, ever, were born before we hadn't even had powered flight.

And there I got to sit, as a 10 year old, watch us become actual space travelers.

pps. I was 11 when I got to take my first flight on a 747. As I recall, it was a big deal when those planes were introduced.
 
  • #38
Monique said:
I've never used punch cards, I'm not THAT old :biggrin: :smile:

Yes, we determined that. :wink:

Punched "card"

I'd seen punch cards, but was about a year or two too old to have actually had to use them.

Take that, really, really old dudes! :-p
 
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  • #39
OmCheeto said:
Yes, we determined that. :wink:

Punched "card"

I'd seen punch cards, but was about a year or two too old to have actually had to use them.

Take that, really, really old dudes! :-p

So did you ever bend, fold, spindle, or mutilate a punch card??
 
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  • #40
Punch cards? You bet we mutilated them with creative "Go To" statements.

Way back when i was in college , like 1964, gasoline company credit machines used half size punch cards with carbon paper for the receipt. You signed it, kept the top sheet of paper and at month's end the company's computer mailed the punch cards to you along with with your bill.
Well, gas was around 25 cents a gallon in Missouri. I had Dad's credit card for emergencies so for a lark charged a tank of gas for my motorcycle, It was around forty-five cents...
I wrote "Hi Dad" on the back of the punch card,
when the bill arrived he took the punch card to work to show off as "A letter from my kid in college".

You know, they just don't make nostalgia like they used to.

old jim
 
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  • #41
edward said:
So did you ever bend, fold, spindle, or mutilate a punch card??
Yes.

Do you remember why some of these decks have a diagonal line(s) drawn on them?

541px-PunchCardDecks.agr.jpg
 
  • #42
If the cards were dropped the lines on the sides helped to put them back in order.OK I cheated. I found it on a blog. It is an interesting blog about old computer technology, or I should say this page of it is.

http://mike-duncombe.blogspot.com/2012/12/living-in-future.html

I was in underground missile silos during that time frame. It seems to me my monthly pay checks were punch cards. We loaded targeting information into the guidance systems using that wonderful punched paper tape someone mentioned.

http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Titan-II-targeting-tape.jpg
 

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