How Do You Derive the Equation for a Vertically Thrown Stone from a Cliff?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the equation for the motion of a stone thrown vertically upward from a cliff, focusing on the mathematical modeling of its vertical displacement over time. Participants explore the implications of the model, including the significance of vertical versus horizontal displacement and the nature of the graph produced.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation for vertical displacement as \( f(t) = -\dfrac{1}{2}gt^{2} + v_{0}t + h_{0} \), emphasizing the importance of tracking signs and units.
  • Another participant calculates the time to reach the highest point, arriving at approximately 1.582 seconds, but expresses uncertainty about the value of \( g \).
  • Some participants clarify that the model refers only to vertical displacement, cautioning against misinterpretations related to horizontal motion.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of the graph, with one participant asserting that the graph represents speed as a parabola, while others argue that it depicts vertical displacement over time.
  • One participant suggests that observing the stone's motion from a fixed camera would not reveal a parabolic path, while another counters that the time axis is essential for defining the parabolic nature of the graph.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical model for vertical displacement but disagree on the interpretation of the graph and the nature of the motion, with competing views on whether the graph represents speed or vertical displacement.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about the motion, the interpretation of the graph, and the role of time in defining the parabolic nature of the trajectory.

karush
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A stone is thrown vertically upward with a speed of 15.5 m/s
from the edge of a cliff 75.0 m high

ok, I was going to graph this with Desmos first
but don't know how to derive the equation for the parabola.

there are 11 questions following this...$$\tiny{Embry-Riddle \, Aeronautical \, University, \, HW3 \, PS103}$$
 
Last edited:
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karush said:
A stone is thrown vertically upward with a speed of 15.5 m/s
from the edge of a cliff 75.0 m high

ok, I was going to graph this with Desmos first
but don't know how to derive the equation for the parabola.

there are 11 questions following this...

$f(t) = -\dfrac{1}{2}gt^{2} + v_{0}t + h_{0}$

$g$ is the Acceleration due to Gravity. Keep track of the sign and units.
$v_{0}$ is the Initial Velocity. Keep track of the sign and units.
$h_{0}$ is the Initial Height. Keep track of the sign and units.
$t$ is the time, in seconds.

Let's see your work.

P.S. Did I mention how important it is to keep track of the signs and units?
P.P.S. Burn this one into your head. You will need it.
 
tkhunny said:
$f(t) = -\dfrac{1}{2}gt^{2} + v_{0}t + h_{0}$

$g$ is the Acceleration due to Gravity. Keep track of the sign and units.
$v_{0}$ is the Initial Velocity. Keep track of the sign and units.
$h_{0}$ is the Initial Height. Keep track of the sign and units.
$t$ is the time, in seconds.
$\begin{align*}
f(t)&=-\dfrac{1}{2}gt^{2}+v_{0}t+h_{0}\\
&=-0.5(9.8)t^2+15.5t+75
\end{align*}$
ok I wasn't sure sure about $g$ but so far this
View attachment 7654
a. How much time will it take to reach the highest point?
$\begin{align*}
s(t)&=-\dfrac{1}{2}gt^{2}+v_{0}t+h_{0}\\
v(t)&=-9.8t+15.5 \\
v(1.58163)&=0
\end{align*}$
well I got $\approx 1.582s$
 

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Looks good.

It is important to remember that this model refers to the VERTICAL displacement ONLY. It is easy to mistake the pretty picture to mean something about horizontal displacement. We threw the object STRAIGHT UP and it falls STRAIGHT DOWN. Nothing horizontal in this model.
 
That is, the horizontal axis of your graph is time, not distance.
 
tkhunny said:
Looks good.

It is important to remember that this model refers to the VERTICAL displacement ONLY. It is easy to mistake the pretty picture to mean something about horizontal displacement. We threw the object STRAIGHT UP and it falls STRAIGHT DOWN. Nothing horizontal in this model.

however we are not graphing the actual path the object
but rhe speed of the objecr which is a parabola !
 
karush said:
however we are not graphing the actual path the object
but rhe speed of the objecr which is a parabola !

Speed? No. This is just vertical displacement - position.

You correctly observed where the velocity was zero (0) by finding the first derivative.

If you throw the stone in view of a fixed camera position, you would see no parabola - Just up and down.
If you repositioned the camera consistently and quickly in one direction, then you would see the parabola.

Vertical axis is vertical displacement (height).
Horizontal axis is time.
 
tkhunny said:
Vertical axis is vertical displacement (height).
Horizontal axis is time.

If it was not a parabola the t-axis
Would useless.
 
karush said:
If it was not a parabola the t-axis
Would useless.
I would tend to disagree and reverse your argument. Without the t-axis, it isn't a parabola. There isn't anything about throwing a rock straight up that says "parabola" UNLESS you watch the thing as it travels through time.
 

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