How do you derive this formula?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Conservation of Mechanical Energy formula and the work-energy principle. Participants explore the theoretical foundations and implications of these concepts, as well as their applications in scenarios involving external forces such as friction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to derive the formula for Conservation of Mechanical Energy, expressing curiosity despite it not being part of their syllabus.
  • Another participant asserts that conservation of energy is akin to an axiom, suggesting it cannot be derived but can be observed in various contexts.
  • A participant agrees with the previous point, explaining that work done by external forces, such as friction, alters the total energy of the system without destroying it.
  • Another participant clarifies that the work-energy principle states that work done on a system equals the total energy change, emphasizing that work can affect various forms of energy within the system.
  • Examples are provided to illustrate how work done can increase potential energy or internal energy, even when kinetic energy remains unchanged.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the derivation of the conservation of energy, with some viewing it as an axiom while others explore its implications and applications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the derivation and the role of external forces in energy changes.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the work-energy principle, particularly in scenarios involving external forces and energy transformations, indicating potential limitations in understanding without further clarification.

Trickster_00
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How do we come to the formula for Conservation of Mechanical Energy?
[Initial Kinetic Energy + Initial Potential Energy = Final Kinetic Energy + Final Potential Energy]

It's not a part of our syllabus, but I'm just curious how to derive that formula.

Also, could you please clarify to me what's the formula for work-energy principle?

My book says it's [Work done = Change in Kinetic Energy]... but what if it involves external forces (e.g., friction) and change in potential energy? I'd appreciate it too if you break down the formula for me. Much appreciated. Thanks.
 
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You can't really derive conservation of energy it's sort of like what a mathematician would call an axiom.

There are many ways however in which you can see conservation of energy come into play but they all require that it is taken to be true.
 
Feldoh is absolutely right.

When you have work done by an external force, it will either take away or add to the total energy of the system. The energy is not destroyed, just moved from one system to another.

For Friction ---> Initial PE + Initial KE = Final PE + Final KE + Work done by Friction.

M
 
Just to clarify, the work energy principal should state that work done on a system is equal to the total energy change of the system. This means work can increase PE, KE, spring PE, internal energy, etc, of the system.
For example, raising an object slowly and coming to rest has no change on KE, but requires work to increase the PE. Compressing a spring has no effect on KE, but still requires work to increase the spring energy. Even the work done by friction is never lost, it raises the internal energy of the objects in contact.

M
 

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