How Do You Model a Spring/Mass/Damper System with No Friction?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling a spring/mass/damper system without friction, focusing on deriving the equations of motion for the system. The original poster seeks clarification on their approach to formulating the equations based on the dynamics of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive equations for two masses connected by springs and a damper, questioning the validity of their approach and the variables involved. Some participants discuss the implications of adding the equations and whether this leads to a clearer understanding of the system's behavior.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's equations, providing feedback on their structure and suggesting further exploration of the relationships between the variables. There is a recognition of the need for two separate equations of motion, and some guidance is offered regarding the interpretation of the results.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the equations being valid under specific conditions, such as the positive values of the distance difference, indicating a need for careful consideration of the system's constraints. The original poster expresses uncertainty about their understanding of the problem, which is a common theme in the discussion.

Neofit
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Homework Statement


The system is this:
upload_2014-11-1_14-43-43.png

I want to find the equation describing it. Assuming K = K and M = M, no friction.

Homework Equations


Nothing to post here.

The Attempt at a Solution



For left M: ##f(t) = Kx_1 + b \frac {d(x_1 -x_2)}{dt} + M \frac {d^2 x_1}{dt^2}##
For right M: ## b \frac {d(x_1 -x_2)}{dt} = K x_2 + M \frac {d^2 x_2}{dt^2} ##
Adding the equations: ##f(t) = Kx_1 +K x_2 + M \frac {d^2 x_2}{dt^2} + M \frac {d^2 x_1}{dt^2}##

Is that the way to go here? I have no background in physics, this popped out in a homework question. Please let me know if I am on the right track.
 
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There is no single equation of motion, but rather two equations are required.

What do you think gained by adding the two equations?
 
I don't think I gained something. It's just that one variable is expressed in terms of two other variables, and I substituted... is that wrong? Anyway, are the two first equations ok? I am not sure about the damper's x variable. Should it be ##x_1 - x_2##?
 
Neofit said:
I don't think I gained something.
No, I think it was a good move. Look at how x1 and x2 appear in your resulting equation. Notice anything?
Btw, your equations are only valid while d/dt(x1-x2) > 0, right? In general, need some modulus function in there.
 
##x_1## and ##x_2## are added before multiplied to the spring constant, which is the same for both springs. Is not that what is happening? Once again, first time I saw this kind of problem was days ago in my homework. I was thinking that the resulting equation will equal the force applied, apparently is not what needs to be done.
Yes, the equations are only valid for positive values of the distance difference. Will include absolute value, thank you.
Besides that, are the first two equations correct? They look fine to me, but I won't trust myself on that.
 
Neofit said:
##x_1## and ##x_2## are added before multiplied to the spring constant, which is the same for both springs.
Yes, and compare that with how they appear in the acceleration terms.
Neofit said:
Besides that, are the first two equations correct
Yes.
 
I like what you did quite a bit. By adding the two equations together, you were able to uncouple them, so that you arrived at an equation in terms of the single variable x1+x2. If you subtract the two equations, you will get a second uncoupled equation in terms of the single variable x2-x1. You can solve each of these equations separately, and then combine the solutions in the end. Very nice.

Chet
 

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