How does a C4 explosion work on a molecular level

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the molecular mechanisms of C4 explosions, with comparisons to other explosives like TNT and nitroglycerine. Participants explore the chemical reactions involved, the release of gases, and the resulting heat and energy dynamics during an explosion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the detonator initiates the reaction, leading to rapid gas expansion and energy release, but questions the source of combustion that results in fire.
  • Another participant describes the breakdown of TNT molecules, suggesting that the unstable NO2 groups release energy as they reform into more stable compounds like N2 and H2O, contributing to the explosion's heat and gas expansion.
  • A participant shares a personal anecdote about a book that clarified the chemical processes behind explosions, highlighting TNT as a subject of interest.
  • Questions arise regarding the source of hydrogen in the explosion, with a clarification that TNT contains hydrogen in its molecular structure, leading to gaseous byproducts like H2 and CO.
  • Discussion includes the distinction between deflagration and detonation, with one participant explaining how high explosives propagate through a shock wave.
  • Another participant introduces ammonium nitrate as a simpler example, discussing the electron cloud dynamics and energy states involved in explosive reactions.
  • There is mention of how partially reacted molecules can influence the bonding and energy transfer in subsequent reactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the mechanisms of explosions, with no consensus reached on specific details or the exact processes involved. Multiple competing explanations and models are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about molecular behavior and energy dynamics that are not fully explored. The discussion includes references to specific chemical formulas and reaction pathways that may require further elaboration.

TheWonderer1
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I understand the fact that the detonator begins the reaction. The reaction happens many times release a ton of energy which causes the gases around it to rapidly expand and accelerate away (not the best summary). However, what causes the combustion which tends to happen as a consequence of the explosion? I'm talking about the fire that results.
 
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I won't speak to C4 directly, i'll speak to nitroglycerine. I suspect C4 is similar but more stable.

When the TNT molecule is jostled, its three long, unstable arms of NO2 start to wobble. With enough energy, the arms can break off. These NO2 bits are much more happy as N2 and H2O, so they reform as lower energy compounds. So:

1] energy is released as heat.
2] these new compounds are gaseous rather than solid, and take up much more room. So the CO2 and water and other compounds expand - very rapidly.

So, the upshot is
- a change in chemical compounds, resulting in
- the release of several gases that want to expand to their equilibrium pressure, as well as
- the release of a lot of heat which
- is part of the expanding cloud of destruction as well as
- jostling other nearby molecules, setting them off in a chain reaction

That all happens very, very fast. We call this an explosion.There's more you can study, such as:
- the initial shape of TNT
- the final byproducts
- the differences that make C4 far more stable than TNT
but the above is the gist.
 
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I came across a book many years go, called molecules something.

It picked a hundred or so of the most common/interesting molecules and showed, in such eloquent, succinct terms how they worked.
TNT was one of the ones that stood out. Until then, I'd known simply that an explosion "happened", but it was just magic to me.
This book showed, like I described above, just what happens - and what had been mere mystery now became beautifully clear.

It might actually have been this one, I'll have to check:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521535360/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
DaveC426913 said:
These NO2 bits are much more happy as N2 and H2O, so they reform as lower energy compounds.

And where does the hydrogen come from?
 
Borek said:
And where does the hydrogen come from?
Yes. I was oversimplifying for brevity. Lots to read beyond my humble little post.

The fourth the arm is a methyl group - CH3.

TNT's formula is actually C7H5N3O6 so plenty of Hs in there.

It seems it breaks down into byproducts like so:

2 C7H5N3O6 → 3 N2 + 5 H2O + 7 CO + 7 C
2 C7H5N3O6 → 3 N2 + 5 H2 + 12 CO + 2 C

i.e. gaseous nitrogen, gaseous hydrogen, water vapor, carbon monoxide and carbon (soot).

I guess the gaseous hydrogen and carbon monoxide suggest incomplete combustion.
 
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DaveC426913 said:
- jostling other nearby molecules, setting them off in a chain reaction

That's the way how deflagration works (e.g. explosion of gun powder). The detonation of high explosives like nitrogylcerine or TNT propagates with a supersonic shock wave.
 
Ammonium nitrate is much easier to think about IMO. You have 4 hydrogen packed around a nitrogen atom. Number two nitrogen is a nitrate molecule with 3 oxygen atoms.

Molecules are shaped by the electron clouds. The electrons do not have exact positions. An electron stays in a molecule because it does not have enough energy to jump the barrier (usually).

You could think of marbles inside of a soup bowl on a table. You can bump the table a little and you do not lose your marbles. If you bump the table hard enough the marble can have enough to momentum to roll over the edge of the soup bowl. The marble has less energy on the floor than it does in the bowl on the table so it stays on the floor. After that the analogy with marbles breaks down a bit. Energy released from one event would have to make the table shake more. In the case explosives the high energy molecules formed from one reaction crash into other molecules and bump outer electrons into higher energy states. Suppose you have a table with bowls and marbles in the back of a truck. Then you slam the trucks break's most of the marbles will end up off the table.

Also partially reacted molecules like OH- pull hydrogen nuclei away from the nitrogen atom. This partial charge transfers, the attracted hydrogen atom is partially positive, the nitrogen it is bonded with is partial negative that makes anything else bonded partial positive. That makes it easier for other electrons to jump the barrier and make a new bond.
 

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