How Does an Opamp Circuit with a Temperature Sensor Work?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the operation of an operational amplifier (opamp) circuit that incorporates a temperature sensor. Participants are exploring the theoretical and practical aspects of the circuit, including its configuration and the role of various components.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the circuit's configuration, noting that Q1 is diode connected and that the Vbe temperature dependence is amplified to indicate temperature at a rate of -2mV/°C with a gain of about 50.
  • Another participant challenges the initial assumption that the voltage difference between the inverting and non-inverting terminals is 0.5V, suggesting that with negative feedback, this value should not be as stated.
  • A participant proposes a simplified version of the circuit, introducing a 1.2V reference for constant current biasing and a -1.2V reference for zeroing, but expresses uncertainty about the zeroing process and the use of a 5k potentiometer.
  • Questions arise regarding the necessity of additional components, such as another diode or resistor, for achieving the zeroing effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of the circuit operation, particularly regarding the voltage differences and the zeroing mechanism. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions related to the circuit's operation, particularly concerning the zeroing process and the role of the potentiometer. There are also unresolved mathematical steps regarding the voltage calculations.

likephysics
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Homework Statement


I am trying to figure out how this ckt works. But no idea, where to even begin.
see attachment tp.png

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Q1 is diode connected. The Vbe temperature dependence is amplified to indicate the temperature. -2mV/ deg C
Gain is about 50.
I simplified the ckt to the one in pdf attachment.
The -15v is added to inverting terminal and -13.85v is added to non-inverting terminal.
Assuming Vbe is 0.64v at room temp, -13.85 and -0.64v add up to -14.5v
The difference between invering and non-inverting terminals is 0.5v.
Can't go any further.
 

Attachments

  • tp.PNG
    tp.PNG
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  • opamp temp reduced.pdf
    opamp temp reduced.pdf
    6.1 KB · Views: 363
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likephysics said:

Homework Statement


I am trying to figure out how this ckt works. But no idea, where to even begin.
see attachment tp.png

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Q1 is diode connected. The Vbe temperature dependence is amplified to indicate the temperature. -2mV/ deg C
Gain is about 50.
I simplified the ckt to the one in pdf attachment.
The -15v is added to inverting terminal and -13.85v is added to non-inverting terminal.
Assuming Vbe is 0.64v at room temp, -13.85 and -0.64v add up to -14.5v
The difference between invering and non-inverting terminals is 0.5v.
Can't go any further.

Sweet! That circuit is from near the end of National Semiconductor's App Note AN-31, an Opamp Circuit Collection. Classic AN.

Well for one thing, with negative feedback, the voltage between the + and - inputs is most definitely not 0.5V. :smile:

You might have a look at National Semiconductor's AN-56 (which is in the same book as AN-31 if you have it, their "Linear Applications Handbook"). Figure 6 in AN-56 is an Electronic Thermometer opamp circuit, very similar to the one you posted. AN-56 has an explanation of how the circuit works, so that should help you figure out this AN-31 circuit.

Let us know what you figure out! :smile:
 
Okay. That helped.
I simplified the ckt to the following.
A 1.2v reference for constant current biasing of temp sensor.
A -1.2v reference for zeroing.
I am not sure how the zeroing works. To zero a diode with +1.2v bias, you need another diode or a resistor with its resistance equal to diode resistance with a -1.2v bias. correct?
I don't know why a 5k pot is used.
I've attached the AN56 ckt and my simplified ckt pdf.
 

Attachments

Anyone?
 

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