How Does Calculus Explain How V=S/T & DV=DS/DT?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter abrahamjp
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Calculus Works
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the equations v = s/t and dv = ds/dt, exploring their implications in the context of calculus, particularly in relation to Galileo's equations of motion. Participants examine the differences between average and instantaneous velocity, as well as the role of differentiation in deriving equations of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that v = s/t represents average velocity over a time interval, while dv = ds/dt represents instantaneous velocity at a specific moment.
  • One participant argues that dv = ds/dt is not meaningful if confused with v, emphasizing that dv is an infinitesimal change in velocity, while ds is a small displacement over a small time interval dt.
  • Another participant points out that dv/dt represents acceleration at an instantaneous time, not merely a division.
  • It is mentioned that Galileo's equations apply only under constant acceleration, and calculus allows for the analysis of arbitrary accelerations through limits.
  • One participant suggests that the equation v = u + at can be derived from the average acceleration formula, while calculus provides instantaneous versions of these relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of average versus instantaneous velocity, and there is no consensus on the implications of these equations in relation to calculus. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and meaning of the terms used.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the potential confusion between average and instantaneous quantities, as well as the dependence on the context of acceleration being constant or variable. The discussion also highlights the historical development from Galileo's work to the calculus introduced by Newton and Leibniz.

abrahamjp
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Dear Sirs,

I am wondering what is the difference between v=s/t & dv = ds/dt where v-velocity,s-displacement,t-time.

Consider Gallelio's equations->
v=u+at--(equation-1) &
s=ut+1/2at^2--(equation-2)
where u-initial velocity & a-acceleration

My doubt is on following point;

If we do,v = s/t in equation-2,we get->v=u+1/2at not v=u+at
but if we do,dv=ds/dt in equation-2,we get=>v=u+at ,exactly the equation we want.

why only differentiation give the result,not just mere divison?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
v=s/t is the AVERAGE velocity over the total time INTERVAL "t".
Thus, it does NOT give the velocity at the INSTANT "t"
 
abrahamjp said:
I am wondering what is the difference between v=s/t & dv = ds/dt where v-velocity,s-displacement,t-time.

Hi !
dv = ds/dt has no meaning at all !
dv is an infinitesimal value (a very small variation of v). Do not confuse it with v.
ds is a small displacement during dt a small variation of time.
So, ds/dt is the speed at time t, which is not infinitesimal, hense not equal to dv.
Do not confuse the average speed s/t with the instantaneous speed ds/dt. Use two different symbols, not v for both.
dt is the small variation of speed during a small variation of time. So, dv/dt is the acceleration.
 
Last edited:
dv/dt is at an instantaneous time... Not division.
 
iRaid said:
dv/dt is at an instantaneous time... Not division.
It's the acceleration at an arbitrary time.
 
Galileo's equations work only for constant accelerations; the theory was worked out by the "Oxford Calculators":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Calculators

Galilleo's experiments showed that gravity was constant (at the surface of the earth), and was thus able to apply these equations.

Calculus allows you to work with arbitrary accelerations; instead of working with algebraic averages it makes use of limits. Between the time of Galileo and Newton, Rene Descartes invented analytic geometry ... this is the tool required to move from the geometric analysis of Galileo to the calculus of Newton and Leibniz.
 
equation v=u+at is merely rearranged from the average acceleration formula \displaystyle\frac{v-u}{t}=a.

In calculus we get the instantaneous versions of these, \displaystyle\frac{dv}{dt} = a, and v(t)=\displaystyle\int a(t) dt
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
812
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K