How Does Energy Transfer Work in Pendulums?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transfer of energy in pendulums, specifically examining the relationship between potential and kinetic energy during oscillations. Participants explore the mechanics of energy conservation in idealized pendulum systems, considering factors like friction and gravitational influence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the energy required to raise a pendulum bob to its maximum height is greater, less, or equal to the energy observed in its oscillations, noting that this depends on the pendulum's design and friction levels.
  • Another participant states that the energy needed to raise the mass equals mgh, and asserts that energy is conserved as the pendulum swings, transforming potential energy into kinetic energy.
  • A third participant clarifies that at the equilibrium position, the kinetic energy should ideally equal the potential energy at maximum displacement, challenging the implication that more energy is needed for oscillation.
  • One participant argues that gravity is not a source of energy but rather a store of energy, using the example of a hydroelectric dam to illustrate that the sun is the actual energy source for raising water.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy in pendulums, particularly regarding the role of gravity and the conservation of energy. There is no consensus on the implications of energy transfer in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the influence of friction and other losses in real-world scenarios, but the discussion primarily focuses on idealized conditions. Some assumptions about energy conservation and definitions of energy sources are left unresolved.

BMZoobie
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Hi everyone, I'm new to this sight/forum so I apologies in advance if I've got the wrong platform or have made any other faux par.

This is probably very elementary to most on this forum; can someone please tell me and hopefully explain a few things around transfer of energy in pendulums. Here is what I am pondering...

Is the energy required to raise a pendulum bob to its point of maximum potential energy more, less or equal to the energy then seen in the movement of the bob back and forth through the resulting oscillations? - I realize that the exact measurements of this depends on the design of the pendulum and assumes a relatively low level of friction but I'm more or less just referring to a string with a spherical weight suspended one one end and fixed to a fulcrum point at the other.

From my limited understanding of this matter I would think that the sum of the energy (mass X gravity X height) needed to send the bob flying past its point of equilibrium a number of times is collectively greater than the initial energy requirement to raise the bob from equilibrium to its point of maximum potential energy, this extra energy being drawn from Earth's gravity.

Can someone please confirm if my understanding is correct of if not explain why and what is actually happening?

Thanks,

Abz
 
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BMZoobie said:
From my limited understanding of this matter I would think that the sum of the energy (mass X gravity X height) needed to send the bob flying past its point of equilibrium a number of times is collectively greater than the initial energy requirement to raise the bob from equilibrium to its point of maximum potential energy, this extra energy being drawn from Earth's gravity.
The energy needed to raise the mass from the lowest point to a height h equals mgh. At the highest point, all the energy is gravitational potential. As it falls, that energy is transformed into kinetic energy. The total energy, ignoring friction and other losses, is conserved as the pendulum swings back and forth.
 
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BMZoobie said:
needed to send the bob flying past its point of equilibrium
Its kinetic energy at the equilibrium position will, ideally, be exactly the same as the potential energy at the greatest displacement. The term "flying" seems to imply that it would be more? It couldn't be, without a supply of extra energy.
No different ideas here than in @Doc Al 's post - just put a different way.
 
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Gravity can never be a "source" of energy. It's only ever a store of energy. A hydro electric dam stores energy but the source is the sun as it's the sun that provides the energy to raise the water/rain.

Anyone claiming they have made a gravity powered machine is mistaken.
 
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