How does gravitational self-interaction affect the Milky Way Galaxy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the effects of gravitational self-interaction within the Milky Way Galaxy, particularly regarding its influence on the galaxy's shape and the rotation curves of stars. Participants explore theoretical implications, existing models, and the role of dark matter in explaining observed phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravitational self-interaction could affect the interactions between stars, potentially altering the galaxy's shape and rotation curves.
  • Others clarify that the Einstein Field Equation's nonlinearity suggests gravity interacts with itself, but this complexity may not significantly impact galaxy dynamics due to the weakness of gravity in this context.
  • It is noted that the prevailing view in the scientific community attributes the discrepancies in galaxy rotation curves to dark matter, rather than gravitational self-interaction.
  • A body of research by Alexander Deur and others challenges the standard viewpoint, suggesting that gravitational self-interaction may have more significant effects than currently accepted, though these ideas have not gained widespread acceptance.
  • The MOND (Modified Newtonian Dynamics) perspective is mentioned, which posits that General Relativity may not accurately describe gravity under certain conditions, particularly at low accelerations.
  • A participant expresses difficulty in understanding the complexities of the discussion, indicating a need for advanced study in physics to fully grasp the concepts involved.
  • Questions are raised regarding the correctness of Alexander Deur's mathematical approach, with acknowledgment that his work has not been widely confirmed by other physicists.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of gravitational self-interaction, with some supporting its potential effects and others maintaining that it is negligible compared to dark matter explanations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of Deur's research and its implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion, including the dependence on definitions of gravitational self-interaction and the unresolved status of Deur's mathematical claims. The complexity of the Einstein Field Equation and its implications for galaxy dynamics are also acknowledged but not fully explored.

KurtLudwig
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It is believed that gravity interacts with itself. I assume that gravity between stars increases. Does gravitational self-interaction change the galaxy's shape or increase the rotation curves of stars?
 
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KurtLudwig said:
It is believed that gravity interacts with itself.
More precisely, the Einstein Field Equation is nonlinear, which can be described as gravity interacting with itself. There is a lot of complexity lurking here; see this Insights article series for more information:

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/does-gravity-gravitate/

KurtLudwig said:
I assume that gravity between stars increases.
No, gravity interacting with itself is not that simple.

KurtLudwig said:
Does gravitational self-interaction change the galaxy's shape or increase the rotation curves of stars?
The standard viewpoint at present is that any such effect is negligible, because gravity is too weak in this regime for any nonlinear effects to be significant. This is one of the chief reasons why the standard viewpoint postulates dark matter in order to account for galaxy rotation curves.

There is a body of research by Deur, among others, that claims that the above is not the case. This research has been discussed in a number of PF threads. I think it's fair to say that these proposals have not achieved much traction in the wider community, although research along these lines continues.

There is also the MOND viewpoint, which claims, in effect, that GR does not correctly describe the law of gravity for very small "acceleration due to gravity". (Many MOND proponents do not describe their research this way, but that is what it amounts to.)
 
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Thank you so much for taking the tine to answer my questions.
I attempted to understand your insights article "does-gravity-gravitate", however I am not at your level. One actually has to study physics at a graduate level and take classes in General Relativity to understand.
Is professor Alexander Deur mathematics correct? As you know, he is a reasearch physicist in particle physics at Jefferson Labs in Virginia.
 
KurtLudwig said:
Is professor Alexander Deur mathematics correct?
That is an open question. If you search PF for his name you will find multiple threads discussing his work. I am not aware of any other physicist who has confirmed his calculations.
 

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