How Does the Darwin Term Relate to Commutators in Quantum Mechanics?

Join the discussion
Ask a follow-up here, or get your own question answered by working scientists, mathematicians and engineers — people, not an autocomplete.
Real named experts · corrections over time · the nuance an AI answer skips
3 replies · 3K views
Sigma057
Messages
37
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


I am trying to fill in the steps between equations in the derivation of the coordinate representation of the Darwin term of the Dirac Hamiltonian in the Hydrogen Fine Structure section in Shankar's Principles of Quantum Mechanics.

$$
H_D=\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left(-2\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]+\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\right)

=-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]
$$

Homework Equations


What Shankar calls the "chain rule for commutators of product" I think he means
$$[\text{AB},C]=A[B,C]+[A,C]B$$.

On the same page he mentions the identity
$$
\left[p_x,f (x)\right]=\text{-i$\hbar $}\frac{df}{dx}
$$

The Attempt at a Solution



One way this equality could be satisfied is if
$$\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]=\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]$$

In component form this means
$$
\left[P_x^2+P_y^2+P_z^2,V\right]=\left(\overset{\wedge }{x}P_x+\overset{\wedge }{y}P_y+\overset{\wedge }{z}P_z\right)\cdot \left[\overset{\wedge }{x}P_x+\overset{\wedge }{y}P_y+\overset{\wedge }{z}P_z,V\right]
$$
$$
=\left(\overset{\wedge }{x}P_x+\overset{\wedge }{y}P_y+\overset{\wedge }{z}P_z\right)\cdot \left(\overset{\wedge }{x}\left[P_x,V\right]+\overset{\wedge }{y}\left[P_y,V\right]+\overset{\wedge }{z}\left[P_z,V\right]\right)
$$

Or
$$
\left[P_x^2,V\right]+\left[P_y^2,V\right]+\left[P_z^2,V\right]=P_x\left[P_x,V\right]+P_y\left[P_y,V\right]+P_z\left[P_z,V\right]
$$

One way this equality could be satisfied is if
$$
\left[P_i^2,V\right]=P_i\left[P_i,V\right]
$$

WLOG let's compute ##\left[P_x^2,V\right]## in the coordinate basis acting on a test function ##\phi(x)##

$$
\left[p_x^2,V\right]\phi =\left(p_x\left[p_x,V\right]+\left[p_x,V\right]p_x\right)\phi =p_x\left[p_x,V\right]\phi +\left[p_x,V\right]p_x\phi
$$

$$
=\text{-i$\hbar $}\frac{d}{dx}(\text{-i$\hbar $}\frac{dV}{dx})\phi+\text{-i$\hbar $}\frac{dV}{dx}(\text{-i$\hbar $}\frac{d}{dx})\phi

=

\text{-$\hbar ^2$}\frac{d}{dx}(\frac{dV}{dx}\phi)\text{-$\hbar ^2$}\frac{dV}{dx}\frac{d\phi}{dx}
$$

$$
=
\text{-$\hbar ^2$}(\frac{d^2V}{dx^2}\phi+\frac{dV}{dx}\frac{d\phi}{dx})

\text{-$\hbar^2$}\frac{dV}{dx}\frac{d\phi}{dx}

=\text{-$\hbar^2$}\frac{d^2V}{dx^2}\phi-2\text{$\hbar^2$}\frac{dV}{dx}\frac{d\phi}{dx}

$$

In comparison

$$

p_x\left[p_x,V\right]\phi = (\text{-i$\hbar$}\frac{d}{dx})(\text{-i$\hbar$}\frac{dV}{dx})\phi

=

\text{-$\hbar^2$}\frac{d}{dx}(\frac{dV}{dx}\phi)

=\text{-$\hbar^2$}(\frac{d^2V}{dx^2}\phi+\frac{dV}{dx}\frac{d\phi}{dx})

=\text{-$\hbar^2$}\frac{d^2V}{dx^2}\phi\text{-$\hbar^2$}\frac{dV}{dx}\frac{d\phi}{dx}

$$
I can't figure out where I've gone wrong.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Sigma057 said:
$$
H_D=\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left(-2\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]+\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\right)

=-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]
$$
The notation is a bit confusing in the text. On the right side of the above equation, the text actually writes
$$
-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \right]
$$
I think this is to be interpreted as a double commutator.
$$
\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \right]

= \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] - \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}
$$

The text reads
upload_2017-6-25_17-41-16.png


They should probably have included another comma in the double commutator
$$
\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot , \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \right]
$$
 
TSny said:
The notation is a bit confusing in the text. On the right side of the above equation, the text actually writes
$$
-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \right]
$$
I think this is to be interpreted as a double commutator.
$$
\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \right]

= \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] - \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}
$$

The text reads
View attachment 206055

They should probably have included another comma in the double commutator
$$
\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot , \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right] \right]
$$

Thank you so much for your reply! Without it I would have probably skipped to the next equality and missed a valuable learning opportunity. I'll post my solution to the problem to assist future readers.

With your clarification I'll rewrite the problem statement as

$$
H_D=\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left(-2\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]+\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\right)

=-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\right]
$$

Using the convention
$$
\overset{\rightharpoonup }{A} \overset{\rightharpoonup }{B}\equiv \overset{\rightharpoonup }{A}\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{B}
$$

I will also make use of the chain rule for commutators of vector operator products, which follows easily from the chain rule for scalar operator products as a consequence of the definition of the dot product and the linearity of the commutator.

$$
\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{A}\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{B},C\right]=\overset{\rightharpoonup }{A}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{B},C\right]+\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{A},C\right]\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{B}
$$

I can now finally fill in the steps between these equations.
$$
H_D=\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left(-2\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]+\left(\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]+\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\right)\right)

=\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left(-\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]+\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\right)=-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left(\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\cdot \left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]-\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\cdot \overset{\rightharpoonup }{P}\right)=-\frac{1}{8 m^2 c^2}\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},\left[\overset{\rightharpoonup }{P},V\right]\right]
$$

Thanks for all your help!