How does the value of r* affect the ΔG vs r curve for heterogenous nucleation?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mathematical modeling of heterogeneous nucleation, specifically examining how the value of the critical radius (r*) affects the free-energy change (ΔG) as a function of the cluster radius (r). Participants explore the implications of the logarithmic term in the free-energy equation and its impact on the shape of the ΔG vs r curve.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation for ΔG and attempts to derive the critical radius r*, suggesting a specific formula involving the parameters γ, ΔG_v, and B.
  • Another participant questions the derivation of r* and points out the absence of the lnr term in the critical radius calculation, indicating a potential oversight in the mathematical treatment.
  • A third participant reiterates concerns about the differentiation process used to find the critical radius, noting that the resulting expression should not contain an r² term.
  • There is a discussion about the complexity of the heterogeneous nucleation compared to homogeneous nucleation, with some participants expressing confusion over the mathematical intricacies involved.
  • One participant mentions a method for finding the critical radius by setting the derivative of ΔG with respect to r to zero, but does not clarify how this relates to the logarithmic term.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the correct treatment of the logarithmic term in the equations and the implications for the critical radius. There is no consensus on the correct approach to plotting ΔG vs r or on the derivation of r*.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the participants' understanding of the mathematical steps required to analyze the problem, particularly in relation to the logarithmic function and its effects on the critical radius and free-energy curve.

muskie25
Messages
15
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


A cylindrical pill-like solid cluster of radius r nucleates from the vapor phase on a dislocation that emerges from the substrate. The free-energy change per unit thickness is given by
\Delta G = \pi r^2 \Delta G_v + 2 \pi r \gamma + A - B lnr
Where A - Blnr represents the dislocation energy within the cluster.

a) Sketch ## \Delta G ## vs ## r ##
b) Determine the value of r*
c) Show that when ## | \Delta G_v | B / \pi \gamma^2 > 1/2 ##, ## \Delta G_v ## monotonically decreases with r, and when ## | \Delta G_v | B / \pi \gamma^2 < 1/2 ##, there is a turnaround in the ## \Delta G ## vs ## r ## curve.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


For r*, I got r* = \frac{-2 \pi \gamma \pm \sqrt{4 \pi^2 \gamma^2 + 8 \pi \Delta G_v B}}{4 \pi \Delta G_v}

I don't exactly know how to plot ## \Delta G ## vs ## r ## for this heterogenous nucleation with the natural log function in there. I also don't really understand part c, but I think that's because I have part b wrong. Any help/input would be greatly appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
muskie25 said:
For r*, I got r* = \frac{-2 \pi \gamma \pm \sqrt{4 \pi^2 \gamma^2 + 8 \pi \Delta G_v B}}{4 \pi \Delta G_v}
It is not clear how you arrived at this. What happened to the ##lnr## from your top equation? How does r* differ from r?

I don't know about the physics in this question, but looking at the maths you can take a factor outside the radical:

r*=\frac{ -2 \pi \gamma \pm 2\pi\gamma\sqrt{1 + \dfrac{2\Delta G_v B} {\pi\gamma^2}}} {4 \pi \Delta G_v}
 
NascentOxygen said:
It is not clear how you arrived at this. What happened to the ##lnr## from your top equation? How does r* differ from r?

I don't know about the physics in this question, but looking at the maths you can take a factor outside the radical:

r*=\frac{ -2 \pi \gamma \pm 2\pi\gamma\sqrt{1 + \dfrac{2\Delta G_v B} {\pi\gamma^2}}} {4 \pi \Delta G_v}

To find the critical radius, you take \frac{ d\Delta G}{dr} = 0 and solve for r. The reason that I am concerned is due to the fact other solutions that I have found (homogeneous nucleation) are much more simple.
 
Your first equation shows ΔG in terms of r2 and r. If you differentiate this to find dΔG/dr the result won't contain an r2 term.
 
NascentOxygen said:
Your first equation shows ΔG in terms of r2 and r. If you differentiate this to find dΔG/dr the result won't contain an r2 term.

Right, but I multiplied through by r to get rid of the 1/r that comes from differentiating the ln term.
 

Similar threads

Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 100 ·
4
Replies
100
Views
12K
Replies
9
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K