How far out are the probes that were sent out

[Zahid Hasan]

I haven't seen any posts about it but I am curious to know how far are the probes from Earth...

• Voyager 1
• Voyager 2
• Pioneer 10
• Pioneer 11

Do they have any chance of colliding with an object?

 

[fresh_42]

https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_10#/media/File:72408main_ACD97-0036-1.jpg
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/voyager/multimedia/pia14112.html
https://space.stackexchange.com/que...-find-and-track-pioneer-10-11-and-voyager-1-2
https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/bubble_big.gif

Do they have any chance of colliding with an object?

This depends on what you mean by an object. I assume they collide with particles quite often. Technically they are in the Kuiper belt, but to collide with the debris there, the chances are low, as it is too wide spread and far distributed. As far as I saw it on a first glimpse, the Pioneers can't be detected anymore, due to the low intensity of their signal, if not zero. So we won't know, even if they should "collide" with something.

 

[Zahid Hasan]

Those are some good links. Searching on Google only displays result which was posted back in 2013 or so and not helpful for current. Thanks for the links.

I am thinking maybe an floating asteroid or a large body?

 

[fresh_42]

Those are some good links. Searching on Google only displays result which was posted back in 2013 or so and not helpful for current. Thanks for the links.

I am thinking maybe an floating asteroid or a large body?

I haven't done it, but compute the volume between two balls, the inner with a diameter of 100 AU and the outer with 200 AU. (That's the volume of the area where the Voyagers currently are. The Pioneers should also be there, although "lost".) Then compare it to the volume of estimated 70,000 objects of a diameter greater than 100 km. (Estimation of objects in the Kuiper belt in a distance below 80 AU. The voyagers are further away, so there are probably even less objects. The Oort cloud ranges roughly until 100,000 AU.) Do it very conservatively and take 10,000,000 objects of say a diameter of 1,000 km. The ratio of these volumes gives you an upper bound on the density of masses in the Kuiper belt (or beyond, depending on where you define the "end" of the Kuiper belt) and thus a rough impression of the odds to "collide".

 

[Zahid Hasan]

It is most likely not possible, however it would be really nice to receive video feed as it travels the unknown... a video would really stands out more than just pictures.

I wonder though, if any of the probes sent back video feed.

 

[russ_watters]

Those are some good links. Searching on Google only displays result which was posted back in 2013 or so and not helpful for current.

An extra 3 or 4 years doesn't change much for a probe launched 40 years ago.

 

[Zahid Hasan]

An extra 3 or 4 years doesn't change much for a probe launched 40 years ago.

True but it's always good to get fresh data... i wished they set aside little time/page to give us updates.

 

[fresh_42]

True but it's always good to get fresh data... i wished they set aside little time/page to give us updates.

The Voyager link I gave you has the actual data of both probes: per second.
Since the energy supplies of the Pioneers are too low, there is no feedback from them and thus all position announcements are speculative. And what difference would it make, whether they are 120 AU or 250 AU away from us?

 

[Zahid Hasan]

The Voyager link I gave you has the actual data of both probes: per second.
Since the energy supplies of the Pioneers are too low, there is no feedback from them and thus all position announcements are speculative. And what difference would it make, whether they are 120 AU or 250 AU away from us?

When I say data, i mean it as news source not just numbers but I presume you are correct... and I am sure 120 AU and 250 AU, a lot of things can happen but what do I know.

 

[fresh_42]

When I say data, i mean it as news source not just numbers but I presume you are correct... and I am sure 120 AU and 250 AU, a lot of things can happen but what do I know.

The point is: without a signal we can't know.
And why is

V1: 20,604,325,047 KM (counting)
V2: 17,047,670,769 KM (counting)
https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/

not accurate enough for you?

 

[rootone]

While the Voyagers are still returning data, their transmission rate is very low, though still useful.
A video data stream would require an enormously greater bandwidth, which most of the time would not be sending anything interesting.

 

[Zahid Hasan]

The point is: without a signal we can't know.
And why is

V1: 20,604,325,047 KM (counting)
V2: 17,047,670,769 KM (counting)
https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/

not accurate enough for you?

Definitely accurate enough :)

 

[tony873004]

I made a simulation to help answer this question.
2013 SY99 and Sedna are included just for scale.
http://orbitsimulator.com/gravitySimulatorCloud/simulations/1493333953691_hyperbolicSpacecraft.html

 

[davenn]

I wonder though, if any of the probes sent back video feed.

no, just individual images built up line by line similar to a fax transmission/reception

 

[Zahid Hasan]

I made a simulation to help answer this question.
2013 SY99 and Sedna are included just for scale.
http://orbitsimulator.com/gravitySimulatorCloud/simulations/1493333953691_hyperbolicSpacecraft.html

Tony that looks great, I didn't even know there was an orbitsimulator... neat!

I wish the blue dots can be clicked to see which probe is which, but it's ok.

 

[fresh_42]

Tony that looks great, I didn't even know there was an orbitsimulator... neat!

I wish the blue dots can be clicked to see which probe is which, but it's ok.

Click the check box on the left labeled "Labels"!

 

[OmCheeto]

I made a simulation to help answer this question.
2013 SY99 and Sedna are included just for scale.
http://orbitsimulator.com/gravitySimulatorCloud/simulations/1493333953691_hyperbolicSpacecraft.html

[Edit: Trust Tony. Om should be in jail. Seriously.]

One of us appears to have our data shifted.

Probe speeds over the last year

My guess is that it's me. If math errors were a crime, I'd spend the rest of my life in jail.

 

[tony873004]

Click the check box on the left labeled "Labels"!

Or Press "L" on your keyboard.

One of us appears to have our data shifted.

I don't think you timed it right on my simulator.
Try this.
1. Open the simulation.
2. Press Pause [||] on the Time Step interface or press "P" on your keyboard.
3. Click the Autopilot Menu. Choose "Single Events" and paste the following code and press "Update":

4/28/2016 {{pause()}}
4/28/2017 {{pause()}}

4. Unpause [>] or 'P'.
5. The simulator will automatically pause on 4/28/2016. Record the values.
6. Unpause [>] or 'P'.
7. The simulator will automatically pause on 4/28/2017. Record the values. Subtract.

The numbers I get doing this are closer to the ones in your OmCheeto column than in your tony873004 column.

 

[OmCheeto]

...
I don't think you timed it right on my simulator...

Nope. Timing was near perfect. I shifted my data entry rows for some reason.

As I said, I should be in jail.

Previous post edited.

 

[Zahid Hasan]

So New Horizon will go further than Pioneer 10/11 in the same time length? Is it because of the faster launch time?

 

[Vitani11]

Calculate it

 

[tony873004]

All the probes got varying degrees of speed boost by Jupiter. New Horizons was the fastest probe ever launched from Earth, but the Voyagers got a bigger boost, so they will always be further than New Horizons. The Pioneers are slower than New Horizons, so one day NH will overtake them.

 

[Zahid Hasan]

All the probes got varying degrees of speed boost by Jupiter. New Horizons was the fastest probe ever launched from Earth, but the Voyagers got a bigger boost, so they will always be further than New Horizons. The Pioneers are slower than New Horizons, so one day NH will overtake them.

Thank you, that's what I figured.

Is it amazing of how old the tech is but is still working but our phone can't last more than 2 years mostly and needs to be replaced.

 

[russ_watters]

Is it amazing of how old the tech is but is still working but our phone can't last more than 2 years mostly and needs to be replaced.

Phones don't need to be replaced after 2 years; we just choose to replace them because we want a newer, more capable model. The only part of the phone that actually wears out is the battery, but if we wanted to we could make them last much longer (via level management).

 

[Zahid Hasan]

Phones don't need to be replaced after 2 years; we just choose to replace them because we want a newer, more capable model. The only part of the phone that actually wears out is the battery, but if we wanted to we could make them last much longer (via level management).

Yes you are right. I just didn't go into detail. Well even then it only lasts very less time compared to the probes. Of course they have a radioactive material which we can't have for safety reason.

 

[infinitebubble]

Thank you, that's what I figured.

Is it amazing of how old the tech is but is still working but our phone can't last more than 2 years mostly and needs to be replaced.

Just like our radio telescopes can spot signals millions of light years away from some unknown signal source, the fact that the radio transmitters are sending faint signals from these probes and we can receive them is because we know exactly where to point the antennas here on Earth. So the signals need not be strong having said that a stronger signal at the probes would have allowed more data to be received here maybe even real time video albeit with some delay.

 

[lifeonmercury]

One interesting thing I noticed on the NASA site tracking the Voyagers is that their distance is measured both from the Sun and from the Earth. Since the Earth is whizzing around the Sun much faster than either of the Voyagers are travelling, their distance from Earth actually decreases at certain times of the year.
I was amazed when I checked the site a few weeks ago and the distance of Voyager 1 from Earth was practically at a standstill while its distance from the Sun was racking up 10 miles or so every second.
I would argue that the distance of the probes from the Sun is a much more meaningful measure especially now that they're on their way into interstellar space.

 

[tony873004]

One interesting thing I noticed on the NASA site tracking the Voyagers is that their distance is measured both from the Sun and from the Earth. Since the Earth is whizzing around the Sun much faster than either of the Voyagers are travelling, their distance from Earth actually decreases at certain times of the year.
I was amazed when I checked the site a few weeks ago and the distance of Voyager 1 from Earth was practically at a standstill while its distance from the Sun was racking up 10 miles or so every second.
I would argue that the distance of the probes from the Sun is a much more meaningful measure especially now that they're on their way into interstellar space.

In the simulation I posted, I used distance to Earth, and you can actually see this happening in the numbers. Reduce the Time Step to make it easier to follow. You can notice that the probes spend part of the year getting closer.

If you want Sun distance, open the menu Autopilot > Per Graphic Update and change each "[4]" to "[1]" and press [Update] . (Sun is object 1, and Earth is object 4 in the simulation).

 

[OmCheeto]

In the simulation I posted, I used distance to Earth, and you can actually see this happening in the numbers. Reduce the Time Step to make it easier to follow. You can notice that the probes spend part of the year getting closer.

If you want Sun distance, open the menu Autopilot > Per Graphic Update and change each "[4]" to "[1]" and press [Update] . (Sun is object 1, and Earth is object 4 in the simulation).

I did notice that you were using "distance to earth".
What I haven't yet figured out yet*, is if you've factored in the "gravitational well" speed reduction.

My extraction of data from "NASA's Eyes.app":

The speed for the first two points struck me as odd. That's another thing I will have to figure out.

I think the New Horizons mission may have been what distracted me from my focus.

ps. I'm always looking for an excuse for my failing brain capacity.

--------------------
*It's been a busy week!

 

[tony873004]

Yes, the gravity of the Sun, 8 planets, Earth's Moon, and Pluto are all included.