How important is the choice of university for postgrad research?

[binbagsss]

i've been offered a place where the supervisor's phd students tend to publish at least four times before graduating with their PhD, however it's not a university I would have selected for my undergrad studies, to put it that way. But I've noticed a lot of such places, including this one, seem to have Oxbridge students etc. It is for engineering research (fluid dynamics)

By important I guess, primarily, I mean in terms of academia prospects after the PhD?

thanks

 

[DEvens]

You can get some info on this by looking at previous people who got PhDs there. Where did they wind up? Do those positions appeal to you? Hopefully the prof can give you some of this sort of info.

If you want to be a prof then publication is high on the list of desirable features. A string of publications, especially in prestigious journals, especially if they get a lot of citations, is a good springboard to the tenure track. Some related issues are: Would you get to go to conferences? Does this prof have an "empire" in that several of his students have become profs? They might be your intro to an academic position after you finish. And they are great potential co-authors on interesting papers.

Also, ask about financial support. Are there teaching or tutoring jobs for PhD candidates? Can the prof support you from a grant? It's time for some polite but frank discussion on that subject.

If you want to go to industry, publications are important but not as important. In industry, solving a problem in a convincing manner is what you want. Having a reputation for finishing tasks is important. It's the "better mousetrap" issue and the "reliable employee" issue. And solving a problem that is at least in some way related to the current issues bothering the industry is especially good. Here, a related issue might be: Is it possible to do contract work for some industry while doing your PhD? Such a contract is a great introduction to the industry you might wind up working in.

So if this prof has industry ties, and you want industry, that's a plus. If he has academic ties and you want academe, that's a plus. And of course, if your desires are at odds with the prof's focus, that's a negative.

 

[boneh3ad]

It's hard to give a good specific answer to such a vague question, but at the end of the day, the quality and reputation of your PhD advisor and research group are at least as important as the name of the school you attend, even for future academic careers. While "famous" advisors tend to be more concentrated at the highly-prestigious, "name" institutions (e.g. Oxbridge, Imperial in the UK; Caltech, MIT, Stanford in the US), these kind of schools hardly have a monopoly on well-known researchers and future academic faculty.

 

[binbagsss]

It's hard to give a good specific answer to such a vague question, but at the end of the day, the quality and reputation of your PhD advisor and research group are at least as important as the name of the school you attend, even for future academic careers. While "famous" advisors tend to be more concentrated at the highly-prestigious, "name" institutions (e.g. Oxbridge, Imperial in the UK; Caltech, MIT, Stanford in the US), these kind of schools hardly have a monopoly on well-known researchers and future academic faculty.

oh well i went to an undergrad uni where people will respond by 'wow , that s a good or uni ' or whatever, whereas this one, people wouldn't, but it's not a bad uni and is in the Russell-Group.. (whatever that means). Thanks for your reply, I'll try and gauge the PhD advisor's reputation more? And as I initially stated at least 4-5 publications per PhD student, so does that sound OK or is such a number of publications common - i thought it was on the slightly higher end of the spectrum. Thanks

 

[binbagsss]

You can get some info on this by looking at previous people who got PhDs there. Where did they wind up? Do those positions appeal to you? Hopefully the prof can give you some of this sort of info.

If you want to be a prof then publication is high on the list of desirable features. A string of publications, especially in prestigious journals, especially if they get a lot of citations, is a good springboard to the tenure track. Some related issues are: Would you get to go to conferences? Does this prof have an "empire" in that several of his students have become profs? They might be your intro to an academic position after you finish. And they are great potential co-authors on interesting papers.

Also, ask about financial support. Are there teaching or tutoring jobs for PhD candidates? Can the prof support you from a grant? It's time for some polite but frank discussion on that subject.

If you want to go to industry, publications are important but not as important. In industry, solving a problem in a convincing manner is what you want. Having a reputation for finishing tasks is important. It's the "better mousetrap" issue and the "reliable employee" issue. And solving a problem that is at least in some way related to the current issues bothering the industry is especially good. Here, a related issue might be: Is it possible to do contract work for some industry while doing your PhD? Such a contract is a great introduction to the industry you might wind up working in.

So if this prof has industry ties, and you want industry, that's a plus. If he has academic ties and you want academe, that's a plus. And of course, if your desires are at odds with the prof's focus, that's a negative.

Thanks for your reply, And as I initially stated at least 4-5 publications per PhD student, and academia would be by dream goal, so does that sound OK or is such a number of publications common - i thought it was on the slightly higher end of the spectrum. Thanks

 

[DEvens]

Thanks for your reply, And as I initially stated at least 4-5 publications per PhD student, and academia would be by dream goal, so does that sound OK or is such a number of publications common - i thought it was on the slightly higher end of the spectrum. Thanks

I can only tell you about me, and the candidates under the same prof while I was there. But 4 to 5 papers during a PhD is towards the high end by my experience. I got three, as did two of my co-students. One got one, and another got two.

One student of "the next prof over" got 8. He's now a professor.

 

[binbagsss]

I can only tell you about me, and the candidates under the same prof while I was there. But 4 to 5 papers during a PhD is towards the high end by my experience. I got three, as did two of my co-students. One got one, and another got two.

One student of "the next prof over" got 8. He's now a professor.

thank you for that insight that is useful.

Based on those publication stats, the fact that the university is 'less preistigous' as where I did my UG, does not really matter? I know it's hard to say exactly, but ...

 

[boneh3ad]

oh well i went to an undergrad uni where people will respond by 'wow , that s a good or uni ' or whatever, whereas this one, people wouldn't, but it's not a bad uni and is in the Russell-Group.. (whatever that means). Thanks for your reply, I'll try and gauge the PhD advisor's reputation more? And as I initially stated at least 4-5 publications per PhD student, so does that sound OK or is such a number of publications common - i thought it was on the slightly higher end of the spectrum. Thanks

Not being from the UK, the Russell Group is a new concept to me, but from some brief searching, it appears similar to the AAU here in the states, where it is a group of respected research institutions that loosely represents the top research schools in North America (or more correctly, the US and Canada).

That said, I can tell you there is at least one famous fluid mechanician/aerodynamicist in my own field that I know currently working at a university not in that Russell Group that would be a massive name to have on your CV when it comes time for faculty hiring somewhere. There is a lot of value in the reputation of your advisor beyond that of your school.

thank you for that insight that is useful.

Based on those publication stats, the fact that the university is 'less preistigous' as where I did my UG, does not really matter? I know it's hard to say exactly, but ...

For what it's worth, I had two first-author journal articles (one in the top journal in my field) and 1 second author paper (in the second best journal in the field at the time) before being hired at the assistant professor level here in the States (roughly equivalent to "Lecturer" at UK universities). My publication record is lighter than the average tenure-track professor here, but I am also an experimentalist that requires big infrastructure to do my work, and most researchers understand that. Paper count is not always the bottom line it is made out to be.

 

[analogdesign]

I would agree with boneh3ad that paper count isn't always the bottom line. My advisor is famous in my little area and his students usually just get a paper or two, but they have impact. More and more, people are looking at impact or H-index more than paper count. A few highly cited papers will look better than a raft of them that are barely cited.

I would focus on the advisor. Is he or she well regarded in the subfield? Have you met the person? Is this a person you want to work with for the next five years or so? Some advisors are incredible mentors, some are barely available and you're on your own. It's good to try to figure out which is which before you commit.