How is Deuterium formed from Hydrogen in the universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the formation of deuterium from hydrogen in the early universe, particularly in the context of nucleosynthesis processes following the Big Bang. Participants explore the mechanisms by which deuterium is created, the role of protons and neutrons, and the relationship between different types of decay.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about whether deuterium is formed from two protons colliding or from two protium atoms pairing, questioning how they overcome repulsive forces.
  • Another participant explains that in the early universe, high energy allowed protons to fuse, with one proton undergoing beta decay to become a neutron, thus reducing repulsion.
  • A subsequent reply emphasizes that protons do not decay outside of specific theoretical frameworks, asserting that both protons and neutrons existed post-Big Bang and contributed to deuterium formation.
  • One participant corrects their earlier statement, acknowledging the role of free neutrons in deuterium formation and noting that most deuterium was created through neutron-proton fusion rather than proton-proton fusion.
  • Questions arise regarding the timing of alpha and beta decay, with a participant suggesting that beta decay likely occurred before alpha decay in the context of Big Bang nucleosynthesis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the specifics of proton decay and the processes involved in deuterium formation, indicating that multiple competing models and interpretations exist. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the details of these processes.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on theoretical frameworks regarding proton decay and the complexity of nucleosynthesis processes, which may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying cosmology, nuclear physics, or the early universe, particularly in understanding nucleosynthesis and the formation of elements.

Toldox
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Hi,
quite new in chemistry..
I would like to know the beginning of the atoms in the universe.
Therefore I must understand the process from Hydrogen to Helium. But
to create Helium you need the isotope(#2) "Deuterium" from Hydrogen.

But how did the Deuterium form? From two Protons colliding or did two Protium
(also an isotope, #1)-atoms became a pair? If it became a pair, how could they
resist the repelling force between them?
 
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In the early universe the energy of the particles was high enough for protons to fuse together. During this process, two protons come together and one undergoes beta decay, turning into a neutron so that there is no longer any repulsion. See the following article. (It's about the p-p chain inside stars, but it's the same process in the early universe)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton–proton_chain_reaction
 
Drakkith said:
During this process, two protons come together and one undergoes beta decay, turning into a neutron so that there is no longer any repulsion. See the following article.

Protons do not decay, except in some "beyond the standard model" theories that have no experimental support behind them!

After the big bang, there was both protons and neutrons in the early universe. Some of the nucleons formed deuterium, but most of this deuterium went into the formation of 4He. The left-over deuterium is what we observe in the present universe.
 
hilbert2 said:
Protons do not decay, except in some "beyond the standard model" theories that have no experimental support behind them!

After the big bang, there was both protons and neutrons in the early universe. Some of the nucleons formed deuterium, but most of this deuterium went into the formation of 4He. The left-over deuterium is what we observe in the present universe.

Ah, I had forgotten about the neutrons that were present. However, protons do in fact undergo beta decay during proton-proton fusion. (Specifically beta-plus decay)

Edit: Note that this beta decay only happens when the protons fuse together. Lone protons do not decay.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your help ,

If I also might ask:

Did the decay have anything to do with the process
of creating the first atoms, or, did it happen after?
And,
which came first, Alfa-decay or Beta-decay? Alfa decay is from what
I've understand only for helium-nucleus.
 
Toldox said:
Thanks for your help ,

If I also might ask:

Did the decay have anything to do with the process
of creating the first atoms, or, did it happen after?

Only slightly. Most of the deuterium was created by free neutrons fusing with protons, and only a small amount was from proton-proton fusion. I was a little mistaken on my first post, as I forgot about the free neutrons and the very short timescale that big bang nucleosynthesis took place in.

And,
which came first, Alfa-decay or Beta-decay? Alfa decay is from what
I've understand only for helium-nucleus.

I'm not sure you can really classify them as one coming before the other. Alpha decay is defined as the ejection of a helium nucleus from an atom, while beta decay is when an atom emits a beta particle (electron or positron) from its nucleus. I guess that if you go off the timeline, beta decay would come first, as practically no atoms were formed that underwent alpha decay during BBN.
 
Ok then I understand :smile:
Thx again.
 

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