How is effective distance calculated for charges in a dielectric medium?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of effective distance between charges in a dielectric medium, particularly how this distance relates to the forces experienced by the charges compared to those in a vacuum. Participants explore the implications of dielectric constants on the effective distance and the forces involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the effective distance formula in a dielectric medium, suggesting that the effective distance in vacuum can be derived from Coulomb's law.
  • Another participant proposes that the effective distance in vacuum can be calculated by considering both the actual distance in vacuum and an equivalent thickness of the dielectric slab, leading to a formula involving the dielectric constant.
  • There is a clarification on the geometric distances involved, with a focus on how to account for distances through both empty space and dielectric material.
  • Some participants question the reasoning behind multiplying distances by the square of the dielectric constants, seeking clarification on whether this is a standard technique.
  • One participant asserts that the equivalent thickness of the dielectric slab in vacuum is crucial for maintaining the same force between charges, suggesting a general approach for multiple media.
  • There is a correction regarding the use of square roots of dielectric constants instead of squares, indicating some confusion in terminology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct approach to calculating effective distance, with some supporting the idea of adding geometric distances while others focus on the implications of dielectric constants. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to calculate effective distances in mixed media.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific conditions such as the presence of both free space and dielectric materials, but the assumptions underlying their calculations and the definitions of effective distance are not fully clarified.

gracy
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http://postimg.org/image/p7sz481cv/

I now know what is effective distance
Suppose you have two charges embedded in a dielectric medium with constant k (so instead of empty space there's a "sea" of dielectric media around them). They are separated by a distance d in the medium, so that Coulomb's law would be:
##F##=##\frac{1}{k 4 \pi ε_o}####\frac{q_1 q_2}{d^2}##

Now we want to know what the effective distance would be in empty space to produce the same force. So:

##\frac{1}{k~4 \pi ε_o}## ##\frac{q_1 q_2}{d^2}## = ##\frac{1}{4 \pi ε_o} \frac{q_1 q_2}{d_{eff}^2}##

which reduces to

##k~d^2## = ##d_{eff}^2##

If we look at the image I have given link of how the net distance between the charges has been calculated there?
 
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Let's assume the charges q1 and q2 are in free space and the slab inserted has a dielectric constant k. If the slab weren't there, the net distance between the charges would be Dnet=r. If ,instead of free space, the charges were in this material with dielectric constant k and thickness t, the effective distance between them in vacuum would be t√k. But here, both free space and that material are present. So, net distance between the charges(in vacuum)=
actual distance in vacuum+equivalent of the thickness of the slab in vacuum.
Hence,Dnet=(r-t)+t√k
where r-t is the actual distance in vacuum and t√k is the equivalent of the slab's thickness in vacuum.
This is as per my understanding.
 
cnh1995 said:
If ,instead of free space, the charges were in this material with dielectric constant k and thickness t
You mean
this.png


rather than
edit.png
 
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I don't think he means the second situation.
It is the same as in your problem. Some of the space between the two charges is empty, some is filled with dielectric.
The distance through the empty space is (r-t), the distance through dielectric is t. These are geometric distances.
In order to find effective distances you multiply each by the square of the dielectric constants: 1 for the empty part and √k for the dielectric part.
Then you just add them to get total effective distance.
 
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nasu said:
In order to find effective distances you multiply each by the square of the dielectric constants
Why?Is this a technique to solve such questions?
 
this-png.93341.png

Here, let the force between the charges be F. To have the same force F in vacuum, the distance between the charges must be t√k in vacuum. Hence, t√k is the equivalent of slab's thickness in vacuum. So, in general, if there are some more media in between the charges, equivalent of their thickness in vacuum should be added to the 'actual'(or you can say 'effective', since k=1) distance in vacuum.
gracy said:
Is this a technique to solve such questions?
I think so. You can try a number of problems and verify.
 
nasu said:
In order to find effective distances you multiply each by the square of the dielectric constants:
Did you mean square root of the dielectric constants
 
Yes, square root. Sorry. :smile:
 

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